Please note that the men were arrested because they had no ID, not because they were brown. How might they have left the scene anyway, with no driver's license. They obviously needed a ride!
Could it be that in typical Indy fashion, race is injected into the story from it's very introduction in order to stimulate the National Inquirer crowd that frequents this publication?
Please also note that Ms. Rebecca Headen appears to be on the newsroom speed-dial, and is ready to spring into action with the slightest prompt by media. Well strap your skates on sister because you're going to be one busy lady if you try to make a race case out of every arrest you read about from now til election time! The politicians who shun their duty when it comes to illegal immigration this year will find themselves back in the public sector and disgraced if they are standing for re-election. Even Democrats can smell a skunk if you wave it under their nose a few times!
Matt, According to the true definition of "ad hominem", my wife's ethnicity perhaps has nothing to do with any debate, but it indeed has much to do with the continuity of the posts. If you read for detail accurately as a reporter, you would have noticed that JohnD asked how I came to have the opinions that I do on immigration. There was nothing "ad hominem" about my reply. Even a simpleton should have understood my point. Of course my personal connection to the issue left you and John both on an uneven playing field, so you decided to "even it up" by attempting to detract from my narrative by disqualifying my opinion.
Thanks also to John for reinforcing my point with his half-hearted attempt at dealing with the affidavit of support issue. He of course wants no part of that because he isn't willing to foot the bill for strangers. Sure doesn't inhibit his desire to compel the rest of us to though...
No offense John, but that seems like a pretty typical response for the $100K+/yr crowd who base their opinions on the sunny side of life and the rhetoric parroted by the upper class spin doctors.
You also mentioned that your kids would be better off if "my side" had it's way. Do you really have any kids? I think if you do you owe it to them to do a little more research. After all, they are really the ones who will suffer if you are wrong and America ends up wallowing in a squalor of our own making.
I said i wouldn't play anymore John, but since you asked questions I'll at least answer them (at least the ones I remember).
Actually I do indeed dismiss the "12 million illegals" number as well. I researched that long ago and the number the government quotes has "surprisingly" only gone up by about 1 million over the last 7 years. As I recall, you are the one using that bogus number.
Yes, I watched the video and am aware of exactly what it is about. Appreciate you taking the time to look at it too. I wonder if you make your stock investments thinking as you profess about future projections though...
Also appreciate your checking out the other link on Biblical views. It would have been nice if you had quoted in context though...But I guess that in itself explains why you have such a hard time getting the big picture.
Wish you had offered a response regarding the Affidavit of Support idea...But don't feel bad! I have NEVER, EVER, had one single pro-illegal or open borders liberal offer to do their part to help out these poor helpless people. They ALWAYS dodge that suggestion like the plague because it defines personal responsibility. Give it some more thought John... you can do your part! It's only money, and if you throw your own at the problem instead of trying to compel everybody else to do it for you, just think of the personal gratification you'll receive! Aren't you the guy who said, "It's a free country"? Set yourself free, give freely, embrace those who want it free, free them from poverty!
You were right, you're no lawyer but you certainly debate like one. Decide what's right and deal with the consequences.
Lisa, Latinon, JohnD, and others who think the issues along the border are nothing to worry about and that illegal immigration is not really that big a deal, please read this government report for a few additional facts on the topic.
Forget about it Bill! JohnD has his mind made up. I mean really, the guy compares speaking English on a VISIT to Mexico with taking up RESIDENCE in a foreign country but not worrying about speaking the language? Sound logical to you?
Maybe we should all just take John's advice and simply move to Canada? No need to work on changing things here....after all it's easier to just give up on our country and invade a neighbor.
And let's just overlook remarks about earning things for yourself and doing things the RIGHT way, we can pretend that God's Grace will prevail even if we are wicked or lazy. Leave the preaching to the Pastor John, you might find you are preaching to one and how embarrassing that could turn out to be. Give this a look and see if you can poke holes in it...
As for quoting a bunch of numbers compiled by government (the same one that got us into this mess by the way), I'll share a pearl of wisdom with you and suggest you research HOW those unemployment numbers are calculated before you put any real stock in them. As I recall, those are based on unemployment CLAIMS, not including those who have given up looking for work or those who have fallen through the social safety net. I bet you actually believe the inflation figures too, eh? Since numbers are your thing John, invest 14 minutes in something worthwhile and check out the video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&q=numbersusa&hl=en
As for my interactions with immigration, legal or illegal, perhaps my wife could explain it better. She would know, being a legal immigrant of Hispanic origin and all. Guess that tosses out the racist and hatemonger suggestions, huh?
Speaking of which, JohnD...I placed my signature and affirmation of trust on a 10 year Affidavit of Support for my immigrant. Ask your attorney spouse to get one of those for you, and the two of you sponsor one immigrant each for the next 10 years. There are around 25-30 million of them hoping for a chance at their dream and you folks look like their best shot!
Let's be reasonable here...take the task on one-on-one rather than asking the rest of the taxpayers to do it for you. I put my money where my mouth is, will you? Maybe you'll get a bonus out of the deal and you can learn some Spanish too. You did say, "unless there's some money in it",right?
Please post again after you get the papers filled out and submitted. I want to send you a "Thank You" note on behalf of the nation's taxpayers.
Oh, and drop by the local ER on a Saturday or Sunday after fiesta. You might want to poll the Social Services offices too around the first of the month, particularly the pre-natal clinic.
I've really enjoyed the companionship John, but I won't try to persuade you again...you're way too smart to see the other side of the coin. Don't worry though, if you and those other like-minded individuals get your way you'll see the true reality of it soon enough. Those numbers are gonna catch up to all of us before too long and it isn't going to be as rosy as you think. Even your lifestyle is gonna take a hit, but of course you're better prepared for it than the middle class aren't you?
JohnD, You crack me up fella! I hope that lawyer you slept with was your wife!
I concede, give up, no mas...I learned a long time ago you just can't reach some people.
I'm not perfect and didn't claim to be, but why is it about me in the first place? Is that how you justify mistakes, by turning the spotlight on the other person? My wife trys that all the time; that way she never has to admit error because it isn't about her anymore. Doesn't work on me when she does it either....
A quick question for Latinon before I go though... If no human being is illegal how do you explain all the prison overcrowding? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you break one law and come here (or overstay your visa) illegally, then you are compelled by the desire to remain here to break a continuous string of other laws to do so.
Seems to me that "illegal" is not only an appropriate description, it is becoming a way of life for many. Oh sure, if we would just grant amnesty to all the unfortunate souls who didn't mean us any harm all the other compounding legal violations would eventually fall away too...right? No one forced anybody to break the first law, and no one who did so came here without knowing there would be a long list of other laws needing violation in order to stay.
Face it! Once you make that first choice it's just a matter of time until your luck runs out. When it does, face the consequences instead of crying "pity me". I reserve my pity for those who deserve and need it. When I make bad choices I don't ask someone else to take my punishment or pay my bill.
Maybe I just grew up in the wrong kind of family or something...We were poor, but we were honest and God blessed us with enough to eat and a roof over our heads BECAUSE we did things the RIGHT way. Back then barging into someone's house and demanding what was theirs wasn't an option. People were kinder then, but most folks knew the difference between right and wrong and the penalty for confusing the two was a lot more harsh than deportation...
Hopefully, you're not an attorney. If you are you're certainly not going to ever become wealthy giving advice for free. But then I guess that's the only way to give bad advice as an attorney and not get sued yourself, right? Your assertion that Ms. Sorg's alleged libelous slander against Mr. Gheen is without merit, given your analysis of the basis of comparison.
As an example, let's say JohnD drives a BMW. So did Charley Manson. I am a writer, publishing a piece on cult murders and I include mention of Charley Manson owning a BMW. No problem so far, right?
Well, I know a guy named JohnD who angers me because he publishes views contrary to mine, and I see an opportunity to discredit him in the public venue. I really want everyone to think the way I do because once I convince them that I am better informed and connected than JohnD they will read my publications instead of his and share my view on the issues. As a side benefit once I drive JohnD out of competition my notariety wil increase and I will become more in demand as a writer. That said, I decide to take a jab at JohnD and mention that he too drives a BMW, although it certainly has no real connection to the story I am writing about cult murders. Never mind the tiny detail that the BMWs were so dissimilar because of model, color, and value that they could hardly even be logically compared.
Does JohnD have the right to feel slandered? Does JohnD have a right to feel threatened because of my insinuation that he somehow bears resemblance to, or is affiliated with Charley Manson? Will my defense hold water if I base it on the fact that the BMWs were both made in the USA, and therefore there must be some significance to the relationship between Charley Manson and JohnD? Please!!
Perhaps JohnD and Ms. Sorg can partner in a used car sales lot. Their skills are being wasted here...
I can understand how you (JohnD) might take the issue of illegal immigration so lightly. Most people who have not yet had their lives personally touched by it think that way. Especially the ones making ill-gotten gains from the current situation. I don't know which one of those classes you fit into, but it is certainly one of them. Sure, it's easy to form an opinion based on the facts, but a prudent person would get as many facts as they could before forming an opinion, much less sharing one publicly. I challenge you to investigate both sides of this issue thoroughly before you choose a side to come down on. Snap judgements are bad for individuals and they are bad for our country. Look around you, the evidence is everywhere!
To so casually compare violating a country's right to sovereignty with violating the posted speed limit diminishes the integrity of your message out-of-hand. Nice to notice that you quaified your remark with a disclaimer that you too break the law, but it's OK because the penalty is minimal, you don't get caught that often, and you can afford the fine. Outstanding example of exactly what is at the root of this problem in the first place! Let's hope you never hold public office because your kind of thinking is how we came to be here today having this debate on what's right for America. Oh wait, no danger of that happening because you already stated, "I guess really it boils down to the fact that most of the people who are here illegally have already made more real effort to be American than I". Guess that quote kinda shoots down your chances, eh?
Ms. Sorg, you stated above that, "The rhetoric of both movements sound familiar, and it is disingenuous to say that the anti-immigration movement doesn't contain serious racists elements". I note that you yet again confuse personal opinion with fact and that is eventually going to get you into a lot of legal trouble. As a journalist you (should) know full well you are crossing many lines of professionalism when you make such statements. Isn't calling someone disingenuous just a "polite" way of calling them a liar? Present some facts to support your assertions and you will be less likely to be deemed a crackpot or "disingenuous" yourself.
I've been following this issue for quite some time now and if there are "racial elements" influencing the issue it is typically the pro-illegal biased reporters looking for their niche, or the self-proclaimed civil rights activists pandering to build their base. Don't you think if there was meaningful influence within the groups you personally choose to attack it would have at least been uncovered and publicized openly by now? It's not like you are the first person to jump up on the soapbox and issue that proclamation. Why don't you "infiltrate" one of these subversive elements and expose them for what you espouse them to be instead of setting yourself up for ridicule (or worse)? I can assure you that "infiltration" will not be difficult. My experience has been that all these groups are comprised of Americans, naturalized US citizens, and legal residents of this country of all races who simply want to restore the rule of law and the rights they have earned as citizens. I assure you that you would be welcomed into any one of them and invited to participate until the moment you do or say something hateful or racist. Give it a try and get in touch with a little more fact and a little less touchy-feely emotion.
Maybe an apology is in order to Mr. Gheen, as well as a retraction? I'm sure that he would be open to your joining his group and learning for yourself who the folks you were so quick to insult really are. It seems like simply telling you isn't convincing, so why not do what real reporters do and get the facts.
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