I'm late to this conversation, but the argument about transgendered people using the bathroom of their choosing has always intrigued me. The "anti" argument is typically made about protecting young children (mainly little girls...nieces, daughters, grand daughters) from all of the "complicated scenarios involved with using the same restroom as someone with man parts". Now, I don't know about any of you, but I've been using public restrooms for decades. Never, in my entire life, have I EVER seen a fellow restroom-user naked. Never. Is this a common occurrence for anyone else? In all the years I've been using public restrooms, I have waited in line with other people as we await our turn for the next available stall. Then, when a stall becomes available, I go inside it and shut and lock my door. So do all the other people. I do my business, flush my toilet and leave the stall so another person can use it. Then I go to the counter where there is usually a sink, some soap and either paper towels or a hand dryer. Occasionally, after washing my hands, I might run a brush through my hair or put on some lip gloss. Then I leave. So, I guess my question is... What am I missing?? Are other women and girls being bombarded by women approaching them for sex in public restrooms? Is it common for someone to reach under the stalls and tug at your ankles, trying to lure you into their stall so they can show you their private parts? Has that ever happened to any of you?? Have any of you EVER seen a naked stranger walking around in a public restroom? Please enlighten me! What are these crazy, complicating public bathroom scenarios we are protecting our little girls from. And if you have little 4 and 5 year old girls, aren't you accompanying them to a public restroom anyway? Seriously. What's all the fuss about?
Notice how Americans make everything all
KAYT you present a logical fallacy. You had a good premise for your argument but you have oversimplified the answers by stating the a single statement about refugees need to be fully vetted. You left out relevant information such as what the vetting policy is. Here is what you left out.
Security screenings are intense and led by
U.S. government authorities, including the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, and multiple security agencies. The process typically takes up to 36 months and is followed by further security checks after refugees arrive in the States.
Refugees undergo biographic and biometric checks, medical screenings, forensic document testing, and in-person interviews. Because of the complexity of the conflict in their country, Syrian refugees must go through extra review steps with intelligence agencies and Department of Homeland Security officers who have particular expertise and training in conditions in Syria and the Middle East.
The U.S. resettlement program gives priority to refugees, usually vulnerable families, who have been targeted by violence. The U.S. does not recognize as refugees people who have committed violations of humanitarian and human rights law, including the crime of terrorism, as refugees. They are specifically excluded from the protection accorded to refugees.
A refugee is a person forced to flee his or her home because of war or political upheaval and seek safety in another country. They have well-founded reasons to fear persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership in social group or their political opinion. Refugee status is determined by the United Nations.
So I think looking at a Facebook page is not extreme vetting. Hand cuffing a five year old child is not extreme vetting. It is stupid and hateful. There have no terrorist attacked from this group of people because they are too busy destroying each other around home . How much more vetting do you want?
So I do not agree that we are taking away your liberty or jeopardize your freedom you have 1/23,000 change of being harmed by a terrorist than being shot with a gun. Maybe you should focus on gun control instead.
Has anyone noticed it's mostly white men who are supporters of the new regime? What's sad is that it's not shocking in the least. Dear white men with ego issues, your fear is embodied in the fact that you ARE losing power and control over the world...and so is this administration. Their progress has consisted of rolling back protections of human beings and animals...way to go. Please know you are the LAST generation that supports such evil and you will perish. The following generations hardly even believe in capitalism anymore, let alone being intimidated by difference and progressive ways of thinking and operating. The clock is ticking and you will soon enough leave this beautiful earth and quite frankly, WE CANNOT WAIT.
@Michael A. I have never advocated for a Christian-only society. You can worship anyone-or no one- you please. But somehow that has been turned around to say that I have no rights as a Christian to worship as I please. I am all for gay marriage-doesn't bother me a bit-I think that gay partners should be able to have the same rights as heterosexual partners-my problem is when you start saying that I have to change my belief system as a part of those rights. If I don't believe in abortion as an employer-should I have to include abortions as a part of my health care package-I am not saying that Joe Smith can't include it in their health care package but should the government say that I must? Muslims can worship any way they please-doesn't matter to me- but when you have countries who advocate for the death to Americans, call Christian infidels-deserving of death and have been known to recruit and train terrorist-I don't think it is racist to want to have a system in place of making sure the citizens of those countries do not mean us harm before they are allowed to come into our country. Our constitution refers to freedom OF religion-not freedom from religion. Those two little words make a world of difference.
@Raleigh Guy-I never said that transgender people weren't nice people. I don't even believe that they would be the ones causing the problems in the bathrooms-I said I don't want my granddaughter to have to share a restroom with someone with man parts. It opens up all kinds of scenarios that there is no legitimate reason she should be exposed to. Why not have restrooms for either men or women that has a door, one commode and can be locked? Problem solved. By the way, My best friend and I shared a hotel room with our two transgender friends when we went on spring break in high school-we even shared clothes. I love them dearly-still don't want them to share rest room facilities with my 4 year old granddaughters.
@Rich 1 I somehow missed your response before my last post but would like to say thank you. I can respect your opinion and perhaps we could even be friends. I have no problem with your your opinion and although I am not in agreement-it gives me pause to at least consider whether you have a valid point. My problem is the vehemence that I have seen demonstrated in the past few months of those on the left has left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. I have never before been politically active and never responded to posts such as this until this past year. I do not own a gun, I am not active in the pro-life movement, I consider myself an independent voter- but I have a hard time being silent when I see such disregard for free speech on the liberal side of politics. How are my free rights being infringed upon????-I find it increasingly hard to be able to voice my opinion without being labeled -pick which label you'd like - just scroll through the previous responses. Who is intolerant?
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses. My hypothesis has been proven. Unless I agree with you-I am racist, homophobic, and xenophobic.-the precise reason I responded to this "letter". You leave no room for differing opinions and therefore demean those whose opinions differ from yours.... which I think (you are the intellectually elite-look it up) makes you allodoxaphobic.
RICH 1, your comments perfectly capture my reactions to KAYTE and the Class of 2007 open letter. I, too, believe everyone is entitled to hold an opinion and share it - respectfully. What frightens me is 45's blatant disregard for truth and ethics, and the radical positions of his closest advisors. It seems that people who continue to support this Administration in light of the continual untruths put out as facts are simply wearing giant blinders that prevent them from seeing the truth.
@Kayt... to answer your question, "does it make me a racist when..." Yes, in my opinion it does.
@kayt - Transgender people don't create problems in bathrooms. They are a wonderful group of people. I happen to know many and have some in my family. Look at how many kids are molested in the church verses the bathroom. Case closed.
Transcript from Bannon's Vatican talk. Rather long, but a good read it one wants to get into the mind set of those 'running' the WH. I would put out there that this is the WH Playbook in which Trump is following. Kind of scary, as a majority of the EOs (Decrees) signed by Trump were written by Bannon and Miller, and closely follow Bannon's (Judeo-Christian West) "Economic Nationalism" philosophy.
I did not attend Duke, however I always had a great sense of pride, as my Uncle, Dr. Jerome Harris , of blessed memory, served asThe Chief of Pediatrics at Duke Medical School for many years. In addition, his wife, Dr. Jacquline Harris, served on the faculty of Duke Medical School, again for many years. My father, from the Dartmouth Class of 1927, and the Harvard Law School Class. Of 1930. He was a Clerk for Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas. I shudder to think of several alumni from all of these institutions who have betrayed the duty of their education to turn against the values of the American people. You should be ashamed of yourself. I am horrified by all of you, Ann Coulter, Dinesh Souza and you , to name but a few, whose racism and lack of humanity betrays the education you were lucky enough to receive. The campaign to remove a black music teacher at Dartmouth has not been forgotten. And the hateful words that have been flying out of your mouth on behalaf of the Trump administration will never be forgotten either. Shame on you.
Susan Harris, daughter of Dartmouth and Harvard, niece of Duke and ashamed of our hateful Trump Administration and all who speak for it, and especially you.
Great, friendly place where you can relax and talk to all kinds of folks that come in. Try it, you will like it.
I still don't get how advocating for rights for EVERYONE takes away anyone else's rights. It doesn't.
@RBECK, indeed, my father was a Blue Devil during WWII. It was the 88th Infantry Division, which fought in Italy. Dad was a POW there. The story goes that Axis Sally of the German army radio gave them that name.
KAYT, you asked for education, so here is a short lesson. Many, if not most, of our white Christian neighbors have been the dominant political and economic power for so many years--hundreds of years--that they consider it their "right" to do what they've always done. Perhaps they can't see their privileged position because they've never seen any other perspective. Now, The Others are demanding the same rights, and you're really angry.
No, you don't have the right, in the US of A, to discriminate against others because your personal version of the One True God says you must. And yes, you are losing some of your religious freedom--IF you actually believe that Jesus wanted you to discriminate. Other religions don't have the right to do animal sacrifice, and Christians don't have the right to tell gay people or Muslims that they will not be served. It's the UNITED States of America. We ALL live here, under the Constitution, which says that equal protection applies to "any person within its jurisdiction." You might also note that the Founders said any "person" and not "citizen." If a person is in our jurisdiction--if they can be told what to do by a police officer, for instance--then they get the same equality as you and me, no matter what your religion says.
If the Founders thought we should adopt Christian beliefs in our laws, they could have easily done so. Most people were Christian then, and the Virginia Colony was actually a literal theocracy, requiring a state religion. But the Founders, who often wrote of God, never once included a religious reference in the Constitution, the very basic and overarching law of our land. They were quite wise. A religious state, like Iran, cannot be a representative democracy for long.
The Common Sense that you appeal to has failed you because, as Einstein said, common sense is just the set of prejudices that one has accumulated by age eighteen.
Rich, a very nice letter. Kayt, you generally did a good job describing some of your beliefs. The posters who simply spewed hate against you did so quickly and foolishly to the detriment of their own cause. However, I do not believe you stated what rights had been taken away before. Also, I am wondering what your response is to Rich's concerns about this administration, as they are very close to mine. The dishonesty from this administration is appalling. There are many other concerns too, such as cronyism. And others, but no need to cause an avalanche.
Hi Kayt. I agree with this letter, but I disagree with others in that it seems to me that you are a good person and I have no wish to bash you. In terms of our values, we disagree on a few things that in the grand scheme of things are pretty small, but we agree about important ones: equal rights for everyone, religious freedom, widely available health care, and the safety and healthy growth of our grandchildren. In my experience the labeling of bathrooms is not a big deal and I'm willing to let people decide for themselves which ones to use. My health care options and decisions have been far more constrained and negatively impacted by insurance companies than by the government. I had a friend who decided he didn't need insurance, who developed cancer. He died after a year and $1 million of treatment that the county residents had to pay for through their taxes. My Muslim friends have waited for over a year for the current visa vetting process, so I don't feel threatened by the current vetting system. But I understand that your experiences may be different than mine and you feel different about these issues. That's okay with me and I hope it is with you. What does bother me is that our president uses untruths to mislead the public and get his way. He talks about record high crime when statistics show that crime in most places are at 50-yr lows. He talks of terrorists pouring easily across our borders when all immigrants already go through an extensive vetting process. He talks about a terrible economy and rampant unemployment when economic indicators show the opposite. He talks about respecting women when he cheats on his wives and brags of grabbing women by their privates with impunity. He continues to brag about his "landslide" electoral victory when it was far below the median of all presidential elections. When this man continues to try to get us to believe his falsehoods and tries to discredit the press when they challenge those falsehoods, I find it a very scary situation. Truth and reality are what we must base our judgments and actions on, not fabrications. And I find it equally as scary when others don't appear to care about all this fabrication. It's a dangerous game to let your leader make up reality as he goes... even if he promises jobs and tax cuts. You'll notice that there were very few protesters during the Bush administrations. The protests today are not at all about Republicans winning the white house. They're about a particular man getting elected and behaving in a blatantly dishonest and subversive way.
@KAYT - the short answer to your questions is... yes. You are racist, homophobic and xenophobic. Also, you don't care that you are those things and, in fact, take pride in those labels. You and Miller appear to be cut from the same cloth, albeit a dirty, smelly, bloodstained one.
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