HomeNewsNorth Carolina  }

Midwives seek autonomy in N.C.

A legislative committee studies options for expanding their role

28 MAY 2008  •  by Suzanne Nelson



North Carolina's high rate of combined fetal and neonatal mortality rank it in the bottom sixth of the nation. The state is also one of only 11 in the country where the practice of midwifery outside the supervision of physicians is illegal.

Russ Fawcett doesn't think that's a coincidence.

Fawcett helps lead an organization committed to turning the situation around in the Tar Heel State. The North Carolina Friends of Midwives (NCFOM) was formed a decade ago to advocate for the independent licensure of midwives. Direct-entry midwifery, which operates autonomously from obstetricians, was outlawed in North Carolina 25 years ago.

In contrast to North Carolina's statistics, eight of the 10 states with the lowest fetal and neonatal mortality allow and license direct-entry midwives.

The issue of legalizing direct-entry midwifery is the subject of a study committee in the N.C. General Assembly this session. The House select committee was formed to investigate the merit of licensing independent midwives, and a report is due by the end of the year. The group has already met twice and heard from both supporters and opponents; at least two more meetings are expected by fall.

The study committee was the way birth reformists sought to get around a seeming impasse: For the better part of a decade, the leadership in the state House and Senate has agreed to pass legislation legalizing direct-entry midwives if and only if the North Carolina Medical Society would sign off.

"That is a perfectly understandable position, but it's just not going to work," Fawcett said. "They are not going to agree, and never have."

The physicians' organization is staunchly opposed to licensing independent midwives.

"The gap that we have to close is the difference in our medical society's take on things versus what the midwives are able to do," says Rep. Ty Harrell (D-Wake), who called for the study committee. The second of Harrell's two sons was born with the assistance of midwives in Washington, D.C.

Hoping to show the legislature the grassroots support behind the move to license direct-entry midwives, every week during the short session one of the five regional chapters of NCFOM will visit with lawmakers. Advocates from the Triangle chapter will meet with representatives and senators May 28 and July 16.

Midwives specialize in normal pregnancy, childbirth and postpartum care and generally strive to help women have natural birth experiences. Midwives are the primary healthcare practitioners for pregnant women in much of the world, and they are trained to recognize anomalies and often refer such cases to physicians.

By contrast, obstetricians are specialists in illness related to childbearing and surgical and other methods to treat those illnesses. In almost every other developed country, the two professions work in harmony, with the majority of normal pregnancies attended by midwives while difficult pregnancies are handed off to obstetricians.

In the United States, however, it is much more common for the two professions to be at odds with each other due to different philosophies about birth. Although there is wide variation among practitioners in each profession, generally obstetricians are taught to actively manage birth, whereas midwives are taught birth is a normal event for a healthy woman and not to interfere unless necessary.

At least one obstetrician in the state supports legalizing direct-entry midwifery.

"I think midwives actually do a better job of taking care of healthy women and also women with social needs than obstetricians do," says Dr. Henry Dorn, who practices in High Point. Last year, Dorn founded the North Carolina Physicians for Midwives, a community of health care providers and researchers who support the midwifery model of care.

"If a patient is going to have a normal delivery with minimal interventions—which has been proven to have improved outcomes—midwives do that better than obstetricians," Dorn adds.

Dorn also notes that what makes midwifery particularly safe is obstetrical backup, meaning that midwives refer complications both before and during birth to physicians. But that kind of "coordinated care" is rare in North Carolina because the prohibition of direct-entry midwifery makes communication between doctor and independent midwives impossible. Most obstetricians turn away women who are working with such midwives who need or desire parallel care. Dorn is one of the only obstetricians around who will see such patients.

"Someone shouldn't have to drive from Charlotte or Hickory or Wilmington simply because they cannot get someone to do an ultrasound," Dorn says.

The chasm is primarily over the practice of birthing at home, where most independent midwives attend laboring women. The N.C. Medical Society, as well as the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, is adamantly against homebirth, maintaining that monitoring of women and fetuses in a hospital or affiliated birth center is necessary in the event of unexpected complications.

The state medical society declined comment other than to refer to its 2006 statement opposing direct-entry midwives and homebirth. In a PowerPoint presentation on its mission, available on the organization's Web site, the society lauds its efforts to stop legislation to license independent midwives in 2001 as one of its legislative accomplishments.

Fawcett points out that this opposition comes in the face of a study published in the British Medical Journal showing planned homebirths to have at least as good outcomes for both mothers and babies as planned hospital births, with drastically lower rates of cesarean sections (4 percent versus 19 percent) and episiotomy (2 percent versus 84 percent). The statistics were compiled from all planned homebirths in the United States in 2000 and included 5,418 women.

Becky Bagley, the director of the nurse-midwifery education program at East Carolina University, explains that the disconnect stems from the assumption by obstetricians that a homebirth is just like a hospital birth without all of the equipment.

"They don't know because they have never been to or seen one," Bagley says.

Nothing could be further from the truth, Bagley explains. Women who birth at home don't have epidurals, maintain much more autonomy over their own movement, and play a far more active role in the management of their own labor. "Physicians are not taught that; they are taught to intervene," Bagley says, adding that the interventions themselves are associated with higher risks of complications.

Bagley is a Certified Nurse Midwife (CNM), the only type of midwifery certification accepted by the state. Certified Professional Midwives (CPMs), the national standard for credentialed direct-entry midwives, cannot legally practice in North Carolina.

Although all midwives practice within what is known as the midwifery model of care, the primary distinction is that CNMs are registered nurses and mostly operate in hospitals. CNMs then have to operate within those institutions' protocols, which often require IVs, fetal heart monitors, prohibit eating and drinking and limit the birthing woman's movement. A small percentage of CNMs practice in birthing centers, where the rules are usually more relaxed.

Certified Professional Midwives practice autonomously from obstetricians and mostly serve those seeking birth outside of a hospital, either in birth centers (in states where they are allowed) or at home.

One of the main arguments for licensing CPMs is that they are trained in the skills necessary to help women deliver their babies comfortably and safely at home and primarily serve that community. Only four CNMs in the state aid families planning homebirths. CNMs in North Carolina have to find a physician sponsor—a considerable challenge considering the stance of both the local and national medical societies on the practice of homebirth.

There are approximately 1,300 CPMs nationwide; only 15 of those are in North Carolina. CPMs are eligible for licensure in South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia. Women in North Carolina are often attended by midwives licensed in surrounding states but who live and practice here.

"That is something these physicians cannot seem to get through their heads: Women are going to have homebirths regardless," Bagley says.

Although the law against direct-entry midwifery in North Carolina has only been enforced once in 25 years, and the charges brought against the midwife were dropped, midwifery advocates say no one is served by having the judicial system regulate midwives.

"If [women] are going to deliver at home, let's provide them with someone who is licensed or legal and is trained," Bagley says. "Physicians are not going to go and sit with a woman at home while she labors. Most Certified Nurse Midwives aren't going to do that either."

Bagley serves on the legislative study committee as an expert adviser. Thus far, she has advised the committee on the difference in education and certification requirements of CNMs and CPMs. Although Certified Professional Midwives are not required to have nursing degrees, a point often held against them by physicians, their clinical requirements are double those of nurse-midwives.

"The training that Certified Nurse Midwives get in the home setting is zero," Bagley points out. "Certified Professional Midwives are better trained in home birth than either Certified Nurse Midwives or physicians."

In addition to the independent licensure of CPMs in the state, advocates also want CNMs to be eligible for licensure without doctor supervision.

"That is the key thing," Fawcett says. "Even if physicians support the idea [of licensing midwives], they will not sign for homebirth midwives."

Of the 24 states that license direct-entry midwives, or CPMs, 18 of them have autonomous practice. CPMs are legal in 40 states but only regulated in half of those.

The charter for the legislative committee acknowledges there are "hundreds" of planned home births attended by CPMs in the state annually, yet the midwives are nonetheless denied a license. "Denying licensure to CPMs marginalizes this entire community and further impedes progress toward addressing North Carolina's poor access to maternity care," the committee charter states.

Midwifery advocates point out that all but five of North Carolina's 100 counties are designated by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services as "medically underserved areas," in many cases meaning families do not have access to prenatal care or affordable birth services.

More than 30 percent of families birth in rural areas that usually have no access to hospital maternity care. Most of those counties are served by CPMs.

Futhermore, the cost of a planned home birth is around $2,500, while a normal birth in a hospital costs at least double that, and cesarian sections can cost upward of $20,000. More than half of the families served by CPMs are uninsured.

Despite these statistics, it's normal, healthy women who comprise 90 percent of obstetrical practice income, according to Dorn, and it's those patients OBs are afraid of losing. At the same time, he says, "It's not like the vast majority of women are clamoring for homebirth and midwifery," meaning that current obstetricians are unlikely to be financially threatened.

Economics aside, Dorn said, if more women with normal pregnancies had their prenatal care attended by midwives, rates of pre-eclampsia (high blood pressure in pregnant women), low-birth-weight babies, and complications during labor would fall. He says that's because obstetricians have very little training in nutrition and social issues that are crucial to healthy pregnancies.

"Having an OB attend a normal delivery is like hiring a pediatrician for a babysitter," Dorn concluded. "It's total overkill to have a surgeon attend a normal delivery. It just doesn't make sense."

69 COMMENTS

My second child was born at home with a CPM. I felt that my baby and I were much safer and treated more gently at home than we would have been in the hospital. It was lot of hard work, but it was exhilarating and empowering. This article is a fantastic summary of why we need licensed CPMs in NC and where we are in the process of changing the laws! If you are interested in helping, or would like to learn more about this issue in NC and the US, visit: http://ncfom.org/ http://www.nchomebirth.com/ http://www.thebigpushformidwives.org/
by erin_ecmh (ecm_henry@hotmail.com) Raleigh 28 May 2008, 9:01pm Report this comment
Great article! Really appreciated the way the three people quoted make a cogent argument for healthy pregnant women and birth as normal, not a disease state. I'm so tired of women being told that their bodies are broken and can't possibly birth a baby. I chose homebirth for my second after much research and soul-searching. In the end, it appeared to be the safest option to actually achieve a VBAC. Before researching home birth an a viable option, I felt like an animal backed into a corner, fighting on every front. Who wants to have to birth like that....fighting the hospital protocols that set you up for failure. Bravo NC birth advocates!!
by SBB 28 May 2008, 10:29pm Report this comment
I had my first baby at home and almost certainly avoided either a c-section or radical episiotomy (long labor, shoulder dystocia). My midwife and I handled the birth fantastically; even the pediatrician was impressed when I told him about it (apparently in the hospital they would've broken my baby's collar bone to get her out! YIKES). My prenatal care with the midwife was also FAR, FAR better than the tandem care I had with the ob/gyn. The midwife was gentle and KNEW about pregnancy; for example, the baby's position. The ob/gyn's (I actually saw 2) were always rough, disinterested, and even after using every machine in their offices still had no clue what position the baby was in, among other things. An ob/gyn simply does not know about BIRTH; an ob/gyn knows about SURGERY. Think about it!!!! I highly recommend to every healthy woman with a healthy pregnancy to have a home birth, whether or not it is legal. However, with that said, it is unacceptable that NC does not have a CPM licensure and this is a very undesirable aspect of the state. Every woman deserves birth choice.
by Julia NC 28 May 2008, 10:30pm Report this comment
Also check out www.ncdocsformidwives.org for more info on NC doctors who support the midwifery model
by new member NC 28 May 2008, 11:02pm Report this comment
Interview those women who have experienced both in-hosital births and out-of-hospital births, and the over whelming majority will choose an out of hospital birth for their next birth. The press is slow to conduct these comparative interviews, partly because editors believe a "balanced article" is supposed have an equal number of quotes from opposing sides. Follow the money trail of those who lobby and are lobbied! The powerful medical and pharmaceutical interest lobbies have no interest in allowing midwives gain scope of practice. On the contrary, the AMA wants to expand its own scope of practice by declaring all pregnancies a medical condition; all laboring women mentally compromised and therefore unable to manage their own birth; and all births a medical procedure. Infant mortality with a Certified Professional Midwife is just as safe as an OB-GYN. However, women are not as safe with an OB-GYN – birthing mothers are cut more often unnecessarily. Again, talk with women who had experienced both several times! My wife’s experience as a registered nurse in a hospital My wife is a registered nurse. Her six plus years of hospital experience convinced her that she wanted to be treated differently than how she saw the vast majority of women being treated in the maternity wards and birthing centers. After reviewing the available statistics in 1981, we chose to have all ten of our children at home with a midwife. Why? Here are just a few of the reasons: -- there is more freedom at home; -- a woman is more relaxed in her familiar surroundings; -- hospital caused diseases and infections are reduced; -- iatrogenic diseases are nearly eliminated; -- expenses are less; and -- safety from intervention is greatly lessened! I have yet to meet an OB-GYN who has observed as many natural births as the midwvies we had had over the years. Most hospital births managed by OB-GYN’s include medical interventions of some sort and too high a percentage are induced unnecessarily. When OB-GYN’s improve ALL their safety statistics (including interventions) to match the statistics of CPM’s; are willing to birth in the freedom, safety, and privacy of a home; and are willing to charge the same as CPM’s, then our family is willing to talk about them for a planned low risk birth. Until then, we will choose them only for what their training and experience qualifies them: intervention in a high risk birth situation.
by PapaMidwife (PapaMidwife@oorb.org) , South East 28 May 2008, 11:43pm Report this comment
Thanks for Your Wonderful Article! Being a Mother of 10, I Have had 7 Births in the Home, 1 at a Birthing Center & 2 in the Hospital. Our Home Births Were Wonderful Experiences & Actually, the Only Intervention Ever Taken was in the 2 Hospital Births When I Recieved an Unneeded Epesiotomy for a 5 lb 13 oz Baby & Heavy Bleeding for Another Birth Which I Suspect Was From Breaking the Waters too Early. I Have to Say, in Both Cases, I Was Very Happy With My Doctors but Would Not Hesitate to Home Birth Again Even if it Means Crossing the State Line. Home Birth was a Wonderful Experience for Us & Our Family & We Hope That Direct Entry Midwifery Will Become Legal in NC Again.
by SmileyMe NC 28 May 2008, 11:53pm Report this comment
Advocates for homebirth midwifery often promote their cause with half truths, mistruths and outright deceptions and it is happening here in this article. To imply that the stillbirth and neonatal mortality rate in NC has anything to do with homebirth midwifery reflects either a terrible lack of knowledge or a will to deceive. The overwhelming majority of stillbirths and neonatal deaths occur in high risk groups such as premature babies, multiples and women with pregnancy complications. Homebirth midwives care for NONE of these women, so they could have NO impact on prematurity, multiples and pregnancy complications. This deception sets the tone for the rest of the interviews. Homebirth advocates never mention the fact that homebirth midwives are a SECOND, inferior class of midwives with less education and less training than certified nurse midwives or midwives ANYWHERE else in the industrialized world. No other country in the industrialized world has a second, inferior class of midwives. American homebirth midwives would NOT be considered qualified in any other industrialized country. Homebirth advocates neglect to mention that all the existing scientific evidence to date shows that homebirth INCREASES the risk of preventable neonatal death compared to hospital birth. Sure, there are studies that claim to show that homebirth is as safe as hospital birth, but they do that by comparing homebirth to high risk hospital birth or to hospital birth in past decades. There is no study that shows homebirth to be as safe as hospital birth in comparable risk women in the same year. The interviews neglect to mention that the trade union for homebirth midwives, Midwives Alliance of North America (MANA), has been collecting detailed statistics on the safety of homebirth since 2000. Those statistics have been offered publicly to those who can prove they will use them for "the advancement of midwifery". Even then, they must sign a legal non-disclosure agreement preventing them from letting anyone else to see the data. These statistics almost certainly show that homebirth has a higher rate of preventable neonatal death than previously suspected and MANA is doing its best to make sure that pregnant women do not find out the truth. How can any woman make an informed decision about the safety of homebirth midwifery if the midwife trade union is hiding the information about safety? Homebirth advocates are deceptive about the roles of obstetrician/gynecologists and midwives. Obstetrician/gynecologists are experts in primary care of all women through all stages of life. The illnesses and complications of pregnancy are only one aspect of what they do. In contrast claiming that homebirth midwives are "experts" is attempting to make a virtue out of necessity; knowing about nothing more than normal pregnancy does not make you an expert. It's like a pilot claiming to be an "expert" in flying in good weather. No one needs an expert when nothing goes wrong. The study committee of the North Carolina General Assembly should examine the scientific evidence, and they should insist that the homebirth midwives trade union release the data they have collected on homebirth safety over the past 7 years. It is important that both women and legislators alike understand that homebirth leads to an increase in preventable neonatal deaths, and that American homebirth midwives are grossly undereducated and grossly undertrained compared to midwives anywhere else in the industrialized world.
by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 29 May 2008, 7:27am Report this comment
I had my first child in a hospital with a CNM and the experience was impersonal. With my second child I searched out a CPM that would help me accomplish a home birth. I had to drive 1 hour and 20 min just to get to one close to me. My home birth experience was fabulous, my husband ended up delivering the baby because my labor progressed more quickly and my midwife was still on her way... why?.... because she lived 1hour and 20 min away. If the NC laws were different I could have had a midwife that was in my city or the surrounding areas. Come on NC let's change the rules.
by jess_marinn NC , Fayetteville 29 May 2008, 8:50am Report this comment
First I would like to thank Suzanne for such a wonderful and accurate article. Second, I would like to say that I live in an area that is truly underserved for maternity care. That said however, I was one of the lucky ones to have had two homebirths in two different counties of North Carolina by two different Certified Professional Midwives. These women are determined and selfless. This simply comes down to a woman's choice since safety has been proven time and time again, all over the world. I hope that the Medical Society will come to their senses and work with these magnificent midwives for the good of moms and babies all over NC!
by NannytoaMidwife NC , Burgaw 29 May 2008, 9:12am Report this comment
I had my first baby in a hospital. I was well informed and declined many procedures. Even so I had to compromise on many things...my baby never leaving me for one because the Pediatrician refused to examine my daughter in my room. I also passed out after the birth most likely due to going too long without food (I get hypoglycemic). For my second birth I had a CPM. It was a wonderful experience and I will never have another hospital birth unless I were to have a true complication. I had parallel care doing my last pregnancy. My midwife knew how big my baby was and what position he was in. My OB told me he couldn't even begin to estimate how big the baby was and couldn't even tell that he was head down until I was 38 weeks. My midwife could tell a month sooner. My homebirth was beautiful. I did wonderful! I never even got light headed and certainly didn't pass out three times as I did at my previous birth. I recovered much quicker as well. I felt great and was up and about in record time. In fact I had family tell me it was almost indecent to recover so quickly from childbirth. My CPM has made to postpartum home visits. I would like to see that from an OB! Thank you for a wonderful, very informative article.
by Brooke4Birth NC 29 May 2008, 10:07am Report this comment
Dr. Amy, Anyone who attended the NC Congressional hearing on this subject would certainly not claim that CPMs are "inferior" or second class citizens. Even the CNMs that spoke were very forthcoming that CPMs are required to have MUCH more hands-on experience than they do for their certification. Also, these other countries you speak of, still have homebirths in much larger proportions than America does and has much better maternal/infant outcomes than we do as well. Also, the rate of infant mortality in NC is linked to the CARE our under served women receive, not their "risky" pregnancies. That's why minorities and uninsured women fair worse of all our pregnant women in this state. As well as the women in one of the 20+ counties that don't even HAVE a birth center available. Maybe some research on our statistics would be favorable to your argument rather than spewing outright lies and falsities. Especially since you don't even live in our state and don't seem to know anything about the make up of our communities when it comes to this subject. I had a hospital birth in this state (in one of the larger towns in the state) and received sub-par care even WITH the best insurance available, and a science/medical background. The OB's ignored my complaints of discomfort and the fact that I pointed out that there were leukocytes in my urine (turned out I had a kidney infection which was exactly what I told the OB I thought I had), then the hospital almost killed me and sent me home with a fever of 106 degrees! For my second birth I did dual care with my CPM and a local OB and found that the CPM KEPT me healthy from the beginning, cared more about my health (both mental and physical) and did more to learn about my body. She also caught some liver problems developing that the OB never saw and was able to help me keep those problems at bay so as not to develop HELLP. I had a big boy at home with her and the most beautiful experience of our family's lives. While, I wouldn't claim homebirth is for everyone, I would certainly like to keep my options valid and be able to LEGALLY have a qualified person catch my baby! I'll NEVER step foot in a hospital to deliver my baby again, I'd have been better off at home by myself.
by jettibojetti NC 29 May 2008, 10:21am Report this comment
Thank you Amy Tuter, MD. for giving all of us in the birth community such a fine example of what's wrong with maternity healthcare in the United States. Such anger encapsulated in your libelous statements. As a biologist, and fellow scientist; I employ you to present your scientific data and sources to back up your statements obviously pregnant with seething animosity. You may want to assimilate data on the safety of homebirth for your own peace of mind and intellectual curiosity (please see the CPM 2000 study in the British Medical Journal:) http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/330/7505/1416 or better yet read one the World Health Organization's findings for 2007 at www.who.int/reproductive-health/global_monitoring/skilled_attendant.html where an update for 2007 about skilled birth attendants lowering maternal mortality can be found. The update presents the WHO goal to lower maternal mortality by recommending that "skilled attendants" attend all normal pregnancies and deliveries, then goes on to clearly define "skilled attendants" as: “Proportion of births attended by skilled health personnel” represents the percentage of all births attended by a skilled health-care worker. The term “skilled attendant” refers to “an accredited health professional - such as a midwife, doctor or nurse - who has been educated and trained to proficiency in the skills needed to manage normal (uncomplicated) pregnancies, childbirth and the immediate postnatal period, and in the identification, management and referral of complications in women and newborns” (World Health Organization, 2004). Take notice Amy: Midwife (as skilled attendant) is listed FIRST on the list! The World Health Orgainization does not seem to believe or endorse that midwives are second-string!
by Mystical Womb (doulamama@mysticalwomb.com) Raleigh 29 May 2008, 12:17pm Report this comment
Who is "Amy Tuteur, MD" and where does she practice, or does she practice medicine at all? All I have seen from her is internet attacks on midwifery and a website, with a picture of a 20-something, claiming to provide medical advice. A websearch and check with the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology and ACOG does not show her at all.
by new member NC 29 May 2008, 12:40pm Report this comment
Thanks for a great article! Legalizing midwives would be such a great step for NC to make. Lizzie
by ElizabethKay Raleigh , Wake Forest 29 May 2008, 3:08pm Report this comment
jettibojetti, Unfortunately, your claims are part of the mistruths, half truths and outright deceptions that are integral to homebirth advocacy. Other countries that have a higher proportion of homebirths do NOT have better outcomes than the US. According to the World Health Organization 2006 report on perinatal mortality, the US has one of the best perinatal mortality rates in the world, LOWER than Denmark, the UK and the Netherlands. Mystical womb, As a "fellow scientist", you should know better than to quote a study unless you have read it and analyzed it yourself. The CPM 2000 study ACTUALLY shows that homebirth has a neonatal mortality rate almost triple that of the hospital neonatal mortality rate for low risk women in 2000. The authors left that out of the paper and hoped to fool people by comparing homebirth to hospital birth in past decades. Evidently they have fooled a lot of people. They now acknowledge on their own website that the neonatal mortality rate in 2000 is much lower than they claimed in the paper. Homebirth with an American direct entry midwife is not safe. The trade union for direct entry midwives (MANA) has been collecting detailed safety statistics since 2000, but they are hiding them. It does not take a rocket scientist to suspect that they are hiding them because they show that homebirth is dangerous.
by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 29 May 2008, 3:43pm Report this comment
Greetings Amy, Welcome to North Carolina! I hope all is well with you up in Massachusetts. Fortunately, Amy has propagated these same, tired arguments in so many places on the internet that the counter arguments are readily available. I think I will address a few things. With regard to our excess bad outcomes, the Perinatal Period of Risk Methodology was applied in the analysis of NC’s outcomes during the years 2000-2002. The conclusion was that the single biggest contributor to our excess bad outcomes was poor Maternal Health resulting in premature low birth weight babies and that the key interventions should be targeted at addressing this. We know that the Midwives Model of Care is much more effective at promoting health and the frequency of low birth weight babies in the CPM2000 study was half that of comparable women with very conservative assumptions. As such, we absolutely expect improved maternal health and outcomes with improving access to trained midwives in all settings. The states with the best policies and programs related to maternity care, reflected in the best perinatal mortality rates, license and regulate CPMs. On the subject of safety analysis, I’m very fond of Marsden Wagner’s quote in the BMJ Rapid Responses when the CPM2000 study was published (http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/330/7505/1416): “When a study is published with scientifically valid evidence against an important position of a clinical group, clinicians have two common reactions: ignore the study and hope it goes away; torture the data until it confesses to what they want it to say.” Marsden G. Wagner M.D., Former Director of Women's and Children's Health, WHO The attempts at torturing our analysis basis for safety have failed and a very nice extension to the CPM2000 study can be found here that addresses Amy’s claims. http://understandingbirthbetter.com/section.php?ID=31&Lang=En&Nav=Section Furthermore, with indifferent outcomes for healthy women experiencing normal pregnancies, coupled with fewer premature low birth weight babies and a dramatic reduction in harmful (albeit sometimes life-saving) interventions, planned home birth with CPM can be evaluated as safer. From our perspective, however, this is not so much about which model is safer, or best. There are some tremendous people working to support women and families who choose to birth in hospitals. The work that has been done thus far clearly shows that planned home birth with a trained midwife is a valid choice and the women who choose it need access to care and it is important that the standards of care are maintained (two key functions of licensing). Should future work observe a difference in outcomes, then it is important to understand that to assure women can make informed decisions. The best way to monitor outcomes is by having licensed and regulated midwives in North Carolina. Every argument Amy makes is actually an argument that favors licensure and regulation of the midwives that serve this community (that are also the national standard for care providers serving women who birth Out of Hospital). Someday, with advancements in obstetrical process capability that address the risks associated cesarean section, a comprehensive safety assessment may conclude planned C/S is safer than vaginal birth. I think it would be great to have that kind of capability. Will we then declare women “out of process” who choose a vaginal birth? Perhaps what we will do is put every obstacle in their way to deny them access to care – that’s what we do to women who choose to birth at home in North Carolina. We know what the right answer is. Planned home birth with a CPM is a valid choice and women who choose this deserve normalcy and access to care that is integrated into the healthcare system. We know that licensing is a key step toward assuring women have access to care and that the standards of care are maintained. We know breaking down the barriers in access to midwifery care is a key step in addressing our maternal health and access to care problems. Trampling liberty is not going to solve our problems. Russ Fawcett Legislative Chair, North Carolina Friends of Midwives
by Russ Fawcett NC 29 May 2008, 5:40pm Report this comment
Russ, If homebirth is so safe, why is MANA suppressing the safety statistics it has collected over the past 7 years? As you know, MANA collaborated with Johnson and Daviss on the CPM 2000 study by collecting all the statistics used in the study. Those statistics showed that homebirth had almost triple the rate of neonatal death compared to hospital birth for low risk women in 2000. Of course, the authors conveniently left that out of the paper and hoped no one would notice. MANA continued to collect the exact same statistics from 2001 to the present. Last year, they publicly offered the statistics to be used "for the advancement of midwifery". Why can't we see those statistics? It does not take a rocket scientist to suspect that the midwives' OWN statistics demonstrate that homebirth is not safe. Russ, if you want to advance the cause of homebirth midwifery, why not publicly ask MANA to share the statistics with women? What do you have to fear?
by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 29 May 2008, 6:04pm Report this comment
Since this is such a hot topic AND we've got two experts posting on this, allow me to throw in my two cents.

To begin with I don't believe this article proved its point. The first three sentences of this article seem to state that the thesis of this article will be that there is a link between NC's high infant deaths and our prohibition of midwifery. BUT nothing in this article supports that thesis.

The study that seems to be the hingepin of this article is the British Medical Journal's study (which has already been linked earlier in these posts). That study says quite clearly in it's conclusions that for "low risk women" there is a similar rate of mortality among babies in home birth and hospitals. So that would lead me to believe that instituting midwifery in NC as a common practice would not do anything to pull us out of the cellar with regards to our "bottom sixth" rank (or top 40 if you want to put a positive spin on it. {40 rank is based on http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_06.pdf })

The other thing that struck me upon looking over the BMJ data is that they excluded the infant deaths that occurred when a high risk mother chose the home birth route. I don't see how that's valid, but maybe they just did it so they were comparing apples to apples. However, they also for some reason excluded 7 other infant deaths (stillborns and babies with fatal birth defects). Including those deaths and the 2 they excluded that occured during the high risk pregnancy home births, then the calculated death rate would have doubled. Now I'm assuming that they excluded those deaths because they felt these deaths were unrelated to choosing home birth as your option. That would imply choosing home birth was a factor in the other 9 deaths. If so, does that mean those 9 infant deaths were all preventable? Also, did the hospital mortality rate also exclude stillborns and fatal birth defects? Surely they did, but that's not clear since they don't provide the data they used for comparison. (Though granted maybe they weren't writing with laymen like me in mind. Maybe their target audience all know off the top of their head what normal mortality rate for low risk pregnancies is and what data is being used for comparison.)

There's also one other piece of data that they exclude which I think would be relevant. They state that almost 1 in 8 of the 5418 planned home births actually ended up going to the hospital. How many of those resulted in the death of the child? Obviously if ALL of those children survived (or if all of the deaths were in this group), then that could significantly modify the real risk associated with home birth.

Lastly, let me add my own personal experience. When our first child was born two years ago, my wife was considered a low-risk pregnancy (as far as I know). Very unexpectedly she went into labor at 28 weeks. We assumed it was false labor, but upon the advice our OB/GYN whom we called at 3:30 am on a Saturday night, we went to the hospital. My wife ended up within hours being taken by helicopter to a different hospital with a fully equipped NICU and our son was born a day and a half later. Our plan had been to have a normal healthy pregnancy. That is not how it worked out. That was easily the most stressful time of my entire life. But the OB/GYN's, the pediatricians, and the nurses there were amazing. They were competent, confident, and skilled. Now, I will admit, that I am very very very biased because my son (the cutest, brightest 2 year old you could hope to meet and I'm not just saying that cause I'm his daddy you can ask anyone) is alive today thanks to their efforts. To imply that our fetal and neonatal mortality rate in this state would somehow improve by excluding these people from more pregnancies seems to me to be completely foolish.

by JohnD Raleigh 29 May 2008, 9:41pm Report this comment
Hi JohnD, Those are very thoughtful questions. I can’t engage in a multi-post/multi-day discussion just now, but I will try and be responsive here.

The epidemiological analyses that strive to compare similar populations and look for differences have lots of challenges. There are many things that can influence the outcome, including unforeseen complications. In scrutinizing the CPM2000 study, we observe that over 10% of the planned home birth population were Old Order Amish and Mennonite families that do experience an increase in congenital anomalies incompatible with life. We observe that the setting was likely irrelevant for a number of the bad outcomes (e.g. SIDS death, undetected GBS death in hospital, etc…). Nevertheless, the outcome is assigned to the home birth group. We also know that known fetal demise would not likely be brought to spontaneous labor and delivery in our standard model of care (affecting the comparison groups). There are many studies on planned, attended Out of Hospital birth, and they tend to all tell the same story that it is really hard to see a difference relative to planned hospital birth for healthy women experiencing normal pregnancies. The objectives of the midwife are to 1) coach the mother to stay as healthy as she can and 2) refer to a physician when the pregnancy is judged not normal.

In a nutshell, there is no comparison group with which to compute 2-sample t-tests and percent differences between planned, attended home birth and planned hospital group for healthy women in the CPM2000 study. The probability of a bad outcome is very low (but it is not zero). Schlenkza’s thesis actually showed better outcomes for OOH birth, even for elevated risk factors.

All of this detailed analysis is irrelevant at this point. Planned home birth is a safe choice, but not without risk. The key is that it is attended and that the women who choose this have access to care. To keep it as safe as we can, we need to assure that there are no obstacles to access to care nor a transfer of care when indicated.

Without question, if I were Chief Engineer of maternity care, I would re-engineer the whole thing. I would have a large cadre of midwives attending all women in whatever setting they felt safest. Obstetricians would be engaged and nurtured. I would address the medico-legal environment that is resulting in OBGYNs leaving their practice like lemmings to the sea. This would improve maternal health, improve outcomes, improve the quality of care and reduce costs. For the time being, I will be happy if women who choose to birth out of hospital have access to care.

Russ

by Russ Fawcett NC 29 May 2008, 10:52pm Report this comment
And now a break from the great debate for a mother's perspective: Imagine for a moment that you are a woman about to experience one of life's most miraculous events. You are about to birth your baby. You have been anticipating this life-changing day for the past nine months. Your heart is full of hopeful expectations of the gentle way in which you wish to bring your baby into this world. But now you find yourself, a healthy woman with a normal pregnancy, laying supine on a hard bed with limited mobility. You wish to get up and walk around, but that is made difficult due to the IV line and continuous electronic fetal monitoring. You desire a warm tub of water to ease your labor pains, but that is unavailable to you. You would like a cool drink for your parched throat, but liquids by mouth are prohibited. You might even prefer a cool fruit bar to appease your hunger, but food is definitely not allowed. As you call out louder, someone suggests that you might want to consider an epidural for your pain, even though your birth plan indicated that you wanted a natural childbirth. And finally, as you fail to progress in the allotted amount of time, talk of cesarean section is raised. Unusual? Not at all. And this is the plight of a healthy laboring woman in the hospital in the U.S.. Is it any wonder that more and more consumers are looking to out of hospital births? Why would the state of N.C. want to deny women, who WILL choose to birth at home, the legal option of a certified professional midwife to assist them in having their baby safely? I am a mother of four children, two of whom were born in the hospital in Wilmington, and two of whom were born at home in Wilmington. All four were natural births. However, my home births were easier, faster, and more comfortable. And, yes they were planned. My midwife came prepared with the necessary supplies, and she definitely possessed the necessary skills. I felt very safe in her care. My entire family felt secure in my decision to birth at home with this CPM. She is a busy woman. Mothers will continue to choose homebirth. It is time that we license my midwife and others like her. Education, accountability, and options are what will improve our birth statistics... not restrictive, fear-based legislation. Thank you to the Indy and Suzanne Nelson for an informative, well-written article.
by Janice Hernandez (bellanovamama@yahoo.com) NC , Wilmington 30 May 2008, 11:49am Report this comment
What a shame Obstetricians continue to hold a near monopoly on birth and thwart the rights of women to make educated and informed decisions about their birth. The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology (ACOG) is a trade organization designed to protect the best interest of its members – obstetricians. It is obviously in obstetricians’ best interest to continue to remain in total control of birth. Cesarean sections require less time and generate far more money than natural, normal birth. The World Health Organization (WHO) has made clear that no cesarean rate above 10-15% is justifiable, yet, obstetricians in this country have a 30%+ rate of c-sections, 2-3 times the WHO recommendation. Maternal death is on the rise in this country for the first time since 1977, women are losing ground, and desperately need more midwifery care. Obstetricians receive training on interventions and surgery, and when they are needed, they can be life saving. We should all be grateful for the skills of obstetricians when they are needed. Midwives receive training on normal birth, and when complications and problems arise, they refer their patients to the specialists (obstetricians) as needed. Unfortunately, obstetricians receive very little, if any, training in normal birth. Of course obstetricians have superior skills with regard to interventions and surgery, but midwives have far more skills regarding normal birth. My first two births, attended by obstetricians in hospitals, were traumatic. My prenatal visits with my obstetricians were often just 5-10 minutes. With my third pregnancy, I received care from a homebirth midwife – what a difference! Each prenatal visit lasted about an hour. In addition to basics such as fetal heart tone monitoring and blood pressure checks, my midwife talked with me extensively about nutrition, exercise, and other healthy pregnancy issues. I had a fabulous homebirth and would never consider going near a hospital to give birth to a baby again, unless of course a complication developed and I needed specialized care. The US ranks near bottom for neonatal health and well being among developed countries. The countries around the world with the best maternal and neonatal outcomes are also the countries with high rates of midwifery and homebirth. Recent coverage of the benefits of homebirth from Rikki Lake’s Business of Being Born documentary followed with a stern statement from ACOG denouncing homebirth. Interestingly enough, ACOG has yet to issue a statement condemning elective cesareans, even though the data shows that elective cesareans result in far higher rates of maternal and fetal death, increased infant breathing problems, higher rates of infection, and a number of other problems, as compared to vaginal birth. ACOG and many obstetricians opposing homebirth are always quick to tout an anecdotal horror story of a homebirth tragedy. The truth is, most of us who have birthed in a hospital can also tell you anecdotal horror stories of hospital births, including unnecessary life threatening infections, medication mistakes, and yes, even dead baby stories. These types of decisions shouldn’t be based on anecdotal horror stories, but hard facts. The fact is, the homebirth data makes clear that planned homebirth is safe, and outcomes are just as good, if not better than hospital births. To ensure the well being of pregnant women, the best solution would be for OBs to collaborate with midwives, both CNMs and CPMs. For a number of reasons, some women are going to choose homebirth. It is in the best interest of all women choosing homebirth to have legalized and licensed midwives who can practice openly, consult with OBs, and accompany women to the hospital if a complication arises. Many women right now are forced to go underground for care, or decide to forgo prenatal care altogether and have an unassisted homebirth. Hopefully, the NC legislature will help make birth safer and increase birth choice for NC women by legalizing CPMs.
by Amber Durham 30 May 2008, 12:46pm Report this comment
If homebirth is safe, why is the Midwives Alliance of North America suppressing the statistics that THEY collected about the safety of homebirth?
by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 30 May 2008, 4:42pm Report this comment
It is true that North Carolina is in the bottow sixth in the US in regards to infant mortality. It is also true that independent midwifery is not practiced in North Carolina. However, to suggest that there is a causal relationship between these statements misleading. Also, I find the statement assuring the reader that rates of preeclampsia would decrease if the use of midwives increased, with their attention to "nutrition", difficult to swallow. I am fairly certain that the cause of preeclampsia is not known.
by dasher Durham 31 May 2008, 2:55pm Report this comment
Amber, I whole-heartedly agree with you that the decisions on this matter should be based on cold hard facts and anecdotal stories (horror or otherwise).

However, I do find it ironic that what you offer is mostly an anecdotal story of your experience and precious little in the way of cold hard facts.

And the few "facts" that you offered I wasn't able to substantiate. I went to the WHO website and did several searches to try and find where they had "made clear no cesarean rate above 10-15% is justifiable" and could find no mention of such a claim. Now I did find several anti-caeserean section websites that all seemed to make that claim and all referenced WHO as their source, so maybe it's true but I couldn't readily find anything from WHO saying that and I looked pretty hard. Maybe we can see if someone else's Google-fu skills are greater than mine.

Now I did find reference to a study that they mention on WHO (though don't provide the actual study) that the summary says basically countries with LOW caesarean section rates (<5%) are more likely to have HIGH mortality rates and should increase their caesarean section rate. It also says (apparently) that countries with LOW mortality rates and HIGH caesarean section rates (>25%) may be able to reduce their mortality rates even lower by reducing their caesarean section rate. http://www.who.int/reproductive-health/MNBH/globalsurvey.html

Now that would imply that there is some optimal caesarean section rate between 5 and 25%.

You also state that the US "ranks near the bottom for neonatal health and wellbeing for developed countries". I didn't find any studies that supported that statement. In fact most of the studies on the WHO website that broke the stats up between developed countries and developing countries had the US sitting right on the average. Sometimes slightly above and sometimes slightly below. Now I'm not at all saying that's where we want to be, but it's not "near the bottom" by any means.

So let's get some "cold hard facts" out there. The British Medical Journal study that looked at this stated that there was no difference in mortality rates between home birth vs. hospital birth and there was an increased intervention rate (C-sections, etc.) in hospital births. That would mean that the increased intervention rates are not causing "far higher rates of maternal and fetal death" as you claim. Otherwise the home birth mortality rate would be lower than the hospital mortality rate. Unless there really is some ideal C-section rate and hospitals are causing unnecessary deaths with their too high a rate in exactly the same proportion that home birth is causing them with their too low a rate. I find that unlikely, but it's certainly possible.

And lastly let me say this, the discussion between our two "experts" should be pretty easy to resolve but neither of them is willing to do it. Amy's main argument seems to me to be that the CPM2000 study is comparing the 1.7 deaths per 1000 to old data and that if compared to the correct data it would show that rate to be high. But then she doesn't say what the mortality rate was in 2000 for low risk pregnant women. Russ comes in and claims he can readily counter all her arguments, and then ignores that.

So one of you, please tell me, what was the mortality rate for low risk women in the year 2000?

by JohnD Raleigh 31 May 2008, 3:51pm Report this comment
Several people have left comments stating that some statistics are skewed or wrong. This may be so but the real point is women do not have options when it comes to pregnancy, labor and delivery. My ex-husband is a paramedic and responds to accidents every week where someone is hurt and needs medical attention but, for whatever reason, refuses treatment and transport to a hospital. In these situations, people have options and are legally and morally allowed to make decisions based on their personal wants, wishes and beliefs. Why is childbirth so different? I am one of the few who did plan a homebirth but had to transport to a hospital due to an unforseen complication. Hospital personnel made erroneous assumptions and judgements and treated us like white trash crack whores who wanted to kill our baby!! No one ever asked us one question about our situation or wanted to talk with our CPM, who had traveled to the hospital with us. We had to fight continuously for our rights, from allowing our baby to room with us to refusing the PKU test. We were repeatedly told state law required us to have the PKU test and I repeatedly refused until someone called Raleigh and confirmed I was right. Because I would not sign a consent form allowing 'any routine newborn care' (I didn't know what they considered routine and I asked that I be told before any procedure was done), I was reported to and investigated by DSS. The hospital or staff was in no way conducive to the bonding experience with mother and child. A pediatrician actually told us to allow our son to stay in the nursery so we could get some rest! While I am thankful for the emergency procedures that allowed my son to be born healthy, I am truly distressed that my son was born into a situation of fear, undue pressure and control which didn't have to exist at all. And by the way, before Dr Amy comments on the 'unforseen complication' that made emergency transport possible, this particular complication wouldn't have been noticed had I been in the hospital for the duration of my labor. This was attested to by the OB who delivered my son.
by CarpenterBabe NC , Salisbury 31 May 2008, 5:03pm Report this comment
John D: The neonatal mortality rate for homebirth is the BMJ 2005 was 2.6/1000 (including congenital anomalies). The neonatal mortality rate for hospital birth for white women in 2000 was 0.9/1000 (including congenital anomalies). Johnson and Daviss tried to remove the congenital anomalies from the homebirth group, but they cannot do that unless they compare it to a hospital group where the congenital anomalies are also removed. Johnson and Daviss have recently acknowleged on their own website (Understanding Birth Better) that the correct comparison rate for neonatal mortality in 2000 is 0.9%. They claim that the information was not known when they submitted their paper in 2004, but that is false. The information was published in 2002.
by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 31 May 2008, 5:32pm Report this comment
As a CNM practicing for 28 years,15 in NC,I have followed this topic with great interest.I have attended birth in the home,birth center and hospital and my preference is in-hospital birthing center where women can birth normally but have timely access to whatever level of care they or the baby might need. Many women who are "high risk" can deliver "normally".Many women who are "low risk" need interventions.Families who desire home birth should be able to choose that option and be able to have the assistance of a licenced health care professional(CPM,CNM,MD) who can easily access other levels of consultation and care when necessary.This just seems like common sense. But even if we make home birth safer and easier by improving support systems it will not significantly address basic situations such as access to health care,economic status,poor nutrition and obesity, etc. that contribute to poor perinatal outcomes. For most women in need of health care home birth is not even on the radar scope. What saddens me beyond belief is that the majority of women who will deliver in the hospital setting are subjected to common non evidence based practices such as continuous EFM,IV fluids and oral nutrition restriction,inability to ambulate,restrictions on support people,etc that do lead to abnormal labor and further interventions.I worked with a pioneering OB 30 years ago who said" if women want to deliver at home why don't we make the hospital like home?" When reading about and talking to families comparing their home and birthing center experiences to the common L&D unit and from my personal practice in attending birth in all of these settings I can see why many prefer the out of hospital experience.We have a 25-40% C-section rate in many communities and this is an alarming statistic contributing more to perinatal morbidity and mortality than home birth practiced by trained,conscientious,licensed and regulated professionals.I have seen home birth attended by midwives with varying degrees of training and experience and would much prefer to see it practiced by individuals who must show evidence of a basic level of training to be licenced. MegCNM
by Meg,CNM , California 31 May 2008, 5:54pm Report this comment
Hi John D, Please read the link I posted previously to see the counter arguments to these claims on mortality rates (prepared by epidemiologists).

http://understandingbirthbetter.com/section.php?ID=31&Lang=En&Nav=Section

Right from the get-go, you see that Amy is comparing the (intrapartum+neonatal) mortality rate for the entire home birth population in J&D to the neonatal only mortality rate for white women in hospital. Also, as it turns out, some of the bad outcomes were in non-white mothers and so an adjustment is needed. All this, and more, has been pointed out in the past, and so it goes… Again, please read the link. This has been debated at length for 2 years.

John, I’m an engineer, and I would like to tell you a little story. One of my senior colleagues in the area of analytical and experimental thermal hydraulics once told me “Russ, as a manager, if you want to get to the bottom of some controversial experimental data and if you get a room full of experimentalists together with differing opinions, at the end of the day you will end up cross-eyed, and have to stand up and get cookie.” As I said before, all this lobbing of rocks related to the numbers is irrelevant. Planned home birth is a safe choice and these women deserve access to care. It’s as simple as that.

On the subject of releasing data (I hate all this mudslinging), nobody except governmental agencies whose charter is to collect and release data, do in fact release raw data. Universities don’t do it (unless they are funded to do just that), industrial companies don’t do it, this little marshmallow is just silly. As I understand it, the results will be release along with a proper study.

Hope that helps.

Russ

(Currently in Yokohama and not able to give this my full attention)

by Russ Fawcett NC 31 May 2008, 7:33pm Report this comment
Russ: "On the subject of releasing data (I hate all this mudslinging), nobody except governmental agencies whose charter is to collect and release data, do in fact release raw data." We are not talking about raw data. MANA has collected and analyzed the data. It has publicly offered the data and analysis to those who can prove, in writing, that they will use it for "the advancement of midwifery". Even then, they must sign a legal non-disclosure agreement not to reveal any data or analysis to anyone else. We have no choice but to assume that MANA is hiding the data and analysis because it shows homebirth has a much higher rate of preventable neonatal mortality than hospital birth for comparable risk women. "Please read the link I posted previously to see the counter arguments to these claims on mortality rates (prepared by epidemiologists)." That would be a good idea. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding will see that those "arguments" make no sense. Moreover, Johnson and Daviss are hardly independent investigators; they are both long time, passionate, public advocates for homebirth. Johnson is the former Director of Research for MANA and Daviss, his wife, is a homebirth midwife; they do not disclose that in the study. The study was commissioned by MANA and MANA collected and provided all the data; they do not disclose that, either. The study was funded by money from a homebirth advocacy organization, which is mentioned in small print at the very end of the paper.
by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 31 May 2008, 10:34pm Report this comment
Sigh.

I guess it was too much to ask that you both give the same answer. Now I gotta go look at even more stuff on my own.

Ok, first off, Russ, I'm also an engineer (woo-hoo, Go Pack!) and I completely agree with the old adage that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. That being said, I also believe in numbers. The raw numbers don't lie and they certainly shouldn't change depending upon which one of you is talking. So I went to the NIH data and looked at it myself. Now initially I was going to agree with you and say that Amy's 2.6 number is bogus because the NIH does only include live births. However, looking at the NIH data more they go on to define "live birth" as any delivery where the fetus shows ANY signs of life after leaving the womb. So, now I'm cool with the 4 stillborns being excluded from the study (even though they don't mention mention those in the update link you gave they were in the original).

But now I need more info on the intrapartum deaths (those that died during delivery). Back on their original study at the very bottom they gave a brief summary of each of the 5 intrapartum deaths. Now, a lot of that was gibberish to me so I had to go to emedicine.com and look up what all those causes meant. All of them seemed to describe deaths that occurred during delivery but AFTER the child left the womb and would therefore have been considered a "live birth". And in fact two of them (cord prolapse with ruptured membrane and true knot in the cord), both seem to be instances where the rate of survival of the fetus would have been significantly increased if the delivery had occurred in a hospital where there could have been "immediate delivery at first sign of fetal distress". SO with that said, discarding those 5 intrapartum deaths does not seem legitimate. They also excluded one death that was Hispanic or African American. That's legit since the NIH data being used is for Non-Hispanic whites. But then they go on to exclude the 3 deaths that were the result of fatal birth defects, presumably because those pregnancies would have been terminated prior to birth in a hospital. I don't agree that this a legitimate modification of the data for two reasons. First, the NIH summary very clearly states that the leading cause of neonatal fatalities (20%) is fatal birth defects, so THEY'RE counting them. Second, I have first hand experience where one of my very dear friends had her child diagnosed by ultrasound with an almost certainly fatal birth defect during their third trimester. They elected to have the child nonetheless in a regular hospital delivery. Their daughter survived in NICU for 6 days before she passed on. That would have been counted as a live birth and neonatal death in the hospital data. Their opinion was that if God wanted the pregnancy terminated then he would do it. Now I've already critiqued one person for generalizing off of single anecdotes, but I genuinely believe that many North Carolinians would not choose to terminate their pregnancy just because an ultrasound indicates the child will probably die shortly after being born.

So, all that being said, the right number is that there 18 infant deaths in their sample and that it was appropriate to exclude 5 of them (the stillborns and the non-Non-Hispanic White), but the other 13 would have been included in the NIH Vital Statistics: 2004 data and therefore should be included in the home birth study. So in that case, I'd say the right math is 13 deaths in 5132 births. That comes out to be 2.53 deaths for every 1000 live births.

So, you're both wrong but Amy's less wrong. Russ, the "torturing the data until it confesses" as you said, goes both ways. Looking at the link you posted, I don't agree with torture that J&D had to do to get their number down to .97 per 1000.

However, let me also add, that I think women should have the choice to have a home birth with a CPM. As long as they go in recognizing what the risks are and I think most women would since the risks vs. benefits seem to be relatively self-evident. Advantage: your overall birth experience will be far more enjoyable for you. Disadvantage: If your delivery has complications that require immediate medical expertise, then obviously there's a slightly increased chance your child will die. And that chance is on the order of 1 to 2 in a thousand.

So I guess in summary, I think that I'm convinced that home birth should be considered a legitimate option for women. But I don't agree that anyone should claim home birth is "proven safer", in quite I think it's pretty clear that it's slightly less safe. But, ok, so it slightly increases the chance a child might die. So does letting a women smoke, drink, and drive during their pregnancy and we give them that choice.

by JohnD Raleigh 31 May 2008, 11:48pm Report this comment
JohnD--good questions!

Reference for the 10-15% optimal cesarean rate:

From Marsden Wagner's Born in the USA, pg47 "Through an exhaustive scientific process, WHO has calculated that the optimal rate of C-section for saving the most women and babies is 10-15%. There is no evidence that a rate of C-section over ten percent saves lives."

Reference: World Health Organization, "Appropriate Technology for Birth, " Lancet 2, no. 8452 (1985):436-37

Links for recent US perinatal mortality statistics:

CDC National Vital Statistics System perinatal mortality by state 2003-2004

http://209.217.72.34/VitalStats/TableViewer/tableView.aspx

With the definition of perinatal death as: Infant deaths of less than 7 days and fetal deaths with stated or presumed period of gestation of 28 weeks or more. Fetal deaths with not stated gestational age are proportionally distributed to 20-27 weeks and 28 weeks or more.

The most recent data (2004) puts NC in 47th position--

Average perinatal death rates for NC=8.41 per thousand live births (up from 7.91/1000 in 2003) US average is 6.69, and the best states have 4-5 deaths/1000

Interestingly, eight of the top ten states license CPMs.

The US is one of the countries with the lowest perinatal mortality rates. Infant mortality rates are a different measurement (death up to one year of age), and do not really reflect the quality of prenatal and intrapartum care, which is what we are evaluating. It is very difficult to compare numbers, however, because different groups and organizations use different definitions of the perinatal time period, among other confounding factors.

On the subject of the trade-off in risk of birthing at home vs birthing at a hospital.

With recent statistics stating that 31.1% of births in 2006 being performed by cesarean (approximately 20% of first time mothers), and the risk of maternal death by 2 fold higher for cesarean during labor and 2.3 fold higher for cesarean before onset of labor. Home birth midwives rates of cesarean section were reported to be 3.7% in the BMJ study. Mothers who have cesareans experience 5 fold higher risk of needing antibiotics, and experience increased risks for other types of morbidity. Because of the high percentage of cesarean births, risks associated with cesarean will account for some of the risk of maternal death and morbidity in planned hospital birth that is not present in home births.

Risks of postpartum hemmorhage are increased with interventions such as instrumental delivery (odds ratio 2.3), induction (OR 1.4), and use of pitocin to augment labor (OR 1.4). All of these interventions are used only at the hospital (in transfers for planned home births), at rates of 4 to 6 fold, 2 to 4 fold and 2 to 6 fold over planed home birth, respectively, and are not exclusive of one another.

Babies have an increased risk for neonatal death with cesarean, even when researchers exclude babies with fetal distress. Babies born by cesarean after labor experience 1.7 fold increase in neonatal death, and those born by cesarean before the onset of labor, a 1.9 fold increase. Instrumental and surgical birth also increase the possibility for birth trauma and breathing problems requiring time in the NICU.

Read the detailed report of all the intrapartum and neonatal deaths in the BMJ study. Determine for yourself which you think could have been prevented with standard obstetric care in the hospital.

Resources:

Clin Perinatol. 2008 Jun;35(2):293-307. Cesarean birth in the United States: epidemiology, trends, and outcomes. Macdorman MF, Menacker F, Declercq E.

BMJ. 2007 Nov 17;335(7628):1025. Epub 2007 Oct 30.Maternal and neonatal individual risks and benefits associated with caesarean delivery: multicentre prospective study. Villar J, Carroli G, Zavaleta N, Donner A, Wojdyla D, Faundes A, Velazco A, Bataglia V, Langer A, Narváez A, Valladares E, Shah A,Campodónico L, Romero M, Reynoso S, de Pádua KS, Giordano D, Kublickas M, Acosta A; World Health Organization 2005 Global Survey on Maternal and Perinatal Health Research Group.

J Matern Fetal Neonatal Med. 2005 Sep;18(3):149-54. Obstetric risk factors and outcome of pregnancies complicated with early postpartum hemorrhage: a population-based study. Sheiner E, Sarid L, Levy A, Seidman DS, Hallak M.

by erin_ecmh (ecm_henry@hotmail.com) Raleigh 1 Jun 2008, 12:18am Report this comment
So after I posted that last comment, I was struck by two things. One was a comment on the BMJ website by a Dr. Rivera who stated that in 25 years of obstetrics he had never had even one intrapartum fetal death. So I went and looked on BMJ and back in 1998 the rate of intrapartum fetal deaths was .3 per 1000 live births. http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/316/7132/640

It also goes on to say that hypoxia is a key factor in 90% of those. The home birth ratio of intrapartum deaths is three times that rate and as far as I can tell none of them were related to hypoxia.

That makes me even less inclined to discard the 5 intrapartum deaths in this study. In fact, shouldn't they be focusing on it? It seems like those 5 deaths are the most obvious thing thats making home birth less safe. If you get 5 deaths in a sample of over 5000 and you expect one, maybe two then that's a pretty clear indicator isn't it?

Actually, I know a guy who's been an obstetrician for more nearly 40 years. I'll ask him how many intrapartum deaths he's seen here in NC. It's too late to call him now.

Also, I would have to agree with Amy that Mrs. Daviss should have probably stated that she's a registered midwife. I didn't recognize that that was the RM stood for, but her bio on Midwifery Today does say that she's been a midwife since 1976. If you do a study that draws the conclusion that using a midwife is just as safe as being in a hosptial and you just so happen to make your living as a midwife, then I would think that would be listed under Competeing Interests. In the BMJ study, they list "none" under Competeing Interests.

by JohnD Raleigh 1 Jun 2008, 12:37am Report this comment
Thanks Erin! I tried very hard to find that data and you got it!

And as I stated in my post about the WHO statement, I find it easy to believe that there is some optimal C-section rate that maximizes survivability of both infants and mothers. But as I read the BMJ study and the NIH data(and I've looked at 'em enough I'm about sick of 'em) they're including deaths that are the result of C-sections. So that says to me that any deaths that may be the result of increased interventions in hospitals are still fewer than those caused by home births. Now that may have changed since in 2000 when the BMJ study was done the US C-Section rate, according to the study, was somewhere around 19%. It has since gone up significantly as you've indicated. But as the C-Section rate in the US has increased we have not seen a corresponding increase in infant or maternal mortality.

Also, I'll believe you on the NC ranking. Your link doesn't work, but I did find the 2003 data with the 7.91 number. That was where I got my 40 number from, but looking at it again I was including the US, Guam, VI, DC etc. We're actually at 43 by the 2003 statistics.

Also, interestingly, 8 of the 10 states (in the 2003 data) that have the lowest perinatal mortality rates also have no NFL Football team in their state! Can that really be a coincidence? Maybe if we get rid of the Carolina Panthers, our infant mortality rate will go down. After all, it's working for 8 of the top 10 states. (How Minnesota and California are in the top 10 is a mystery though.)

Ok, that's clearly facetious (though oddly, it's true). And it only took me a few minutes of looking at those states to find a commonality that related 8 of the 10. Just because you can state two facts about a given set of data does not mean there's a causality between those facts. I would be very surprised if moving the Panthers out of state did anything to improve our perinatal mortality rate but I'd also be surprised if licensing CPMs did anything to improve it either.

I've read through the BMJ study, the updated BMJ study, the NIH data, the CDC data, the WHO data, and the pro and anti midwifery websites. I don't see anything that makes me change my opinion from what I stated above. Home birth isn't any safer, but its only a little more dangerous. There's no reason it shouldn't be a choice available to a woman who values that experience.

by JohnD Raleigh 1 Jun 2008, 1:28am Report this comment
Hi John,

Spoken like a true engineer (I thought so)! Well done! Ya just gotta love engineers (every team ought to have at least one).

I’m pretty happy with where you have landed and if everyone believed that birthing in hospital was 99.9% safe and birthing at home was 99.8% safe (for healthy women experiencing normal pregnancies), then I would be a happy boy. My adversaries prefer to think in terms of percent differences, and only consider this one particular variable.

Now I’m not trying to move your opinion (because I am perfectly fine with it), but I need to point out a few things (and I will complicate safety analysis for you just a little bit later).

1) You don’t get to vote on the data. Your instrument says there were 5 intrapartum deaths and 9 neonatal deaths. You need to just accept that.

2) In your evaluation, you have to do one of two things. Either compare the neonatal mortality rate in J&D to the neonatal mortality rate in the NIH data, or take the combined (intrapartum + neonatal) mortality rate in J&D and compare it to the NIH data plus some value for the intrapartum component. You have found a reference for intrapartum mortality of 0.3/1000. I have seen references as high as 0.7/1000 for large populations. I would tend to favor comparing neonatal to neonatal in which case you would compare 0.9/1000 (hospital) and a range of 1.2/1000 to 1.8/1000 (home) depending on what you do with the anomalies if you make no adjustments based on race.

3) You don’t have to embrace that the congenital anomalies would be counted differently to consider treating them separately. Several, if not all, of the anomalies in the home birth group were associated with the Old Order Amish and Mennonite families, which have a higher incidence of such things. These are not the same populations.

4) Amy is comparing datasets taken with different instruments. She is comparing retrospective data (the NIH data based on a review of records) to prospective data (the J&D study). This is considered inappropriate in the world of epidemiology - at least if the intention is to compute percent differences, particularly given the large differences in sample size.

5) Here is something to consider just looking at the setting, http://www.collegeofmidwives.org/Political_Action_2006/ACEO_%20Statement_Policy_OOH_Final_06.pdf. Reference 6 (Schlenzka) is a significant work that shows better outcomes for midwife attended Out-of-Hospital birth, even with elevated risk factors (you can find the complete 200 page thesis with the help of Google).

There are other considerations as well that clearly favor midwifery care (e.g. frequency of low birth weight babies - the setting for labor and delivery is irrelevant, but the care provider during the prenatal period is important here).

Now, here is where I complicate things just a little. This whole conversation is indicative of the deficiencies in the way the clinician views safety analysis (at least when they argue this argument from the other side of the table). Without question, there is an excess of maternal mortalities due to the C/S rate, albeit the absolute rate is lower than that for the baby. At the same time, it is largely agreed that a maternal mortality is a much more traumatic event for the family than the loss of the baby (and therefore weighted higher), and the rate is grossly underestimated. If a woman gets an abdominal infection due to C/S and dies 6 months post-partum, she is not counted as a maternal mortality. Also, women are losing their fertility (i.e. hysterectomy) due to our C/S rate. For talking purposes, you can use the following analysis basis probabilities:

Peripartum hysterectomy for vaginal birth = 1/30,000

Peripartum hysterectomy for 1 C/S = 1/1800

Peripartum hysterectomy for 2 C/S = 1/1300

Peripartum hysterectomy for 3+ C/S = 1/200

So, do you view an inadvertent hysterectomy as simply whatever discomfort is associated with the event (even if life-long), or do you view it as some number of lost opportunity dead babies? My personal opinion is that women will evaluate this differently when evaluating safety. There are myriad other considerations (some of which clearly favor planned C/S over vaginal birth in any setting, such as breech presentation and hypoxic brain damage). I think you belittle safety when you equate a small number of (postulated) excess neonatal mortalities to a big difference in birth experience.

So, my friend, what is your definition of “safety” in the analysis of birth models?

Finally, when you consult with your OB friend on intrapartum mortality, please view his/her response as anecdotal. I have observed OBs say “the probability of suffering a uterine rupture in trying to birth vaginally after a C/S is 1 in 10, or 10%, and you need to just go ahead and have another C/S”. Overall, the probability is more like 1/200, or 0.5%, and much of this is due to obstetrical practice of induction and augmentation of labor (increases the likelihood by 2x or 3x). Also, please shake his/her hand for me for his/her life-long service to women and families.

Again, I am real happy with where you have landed. I say Cheers to you, or rather Kampai in light of my setting.

Russ

by Russ Fawcett NC 1 Jun 2008, 8:11am Report this comment
Hey Meg, CNM,

I absolutely agree with what you’ve said.

Don’t get me wrong, no one is saying “if we have a bunch more home births, and home birth midwives, outcomes will improve”. At the same time, if every mother had great midwifery care (coupled with great OB care when they are sick) irrespective of the planned setting for birth, then maternal health would improve, the C/S rate would improve, outcomes would improve. This is just one step in that direction; however, I know CPMs who would immediately volunteer their time to give free prenatal care to impoverished women (planning to birth in hospital), but can’t given their status in NC (of course they are licensed in CA). These women spend 2 hours in county health department waiting rooms for a 10 minute diagnostic analysis, to then birth with people they’ve not met before (with all of the deficiencies you’ve noted).

I wish I could say that the environment has improved for CNMs in NC and entice you back, but according to the ACNM model that attempts to describe the goodness of a state for professionals, we haven’t improved in 10 years (and I think it is even worse for OBs).

Russ

by Russ Fawcett NC 1 Jun 2008, 9:40am Report this comment

"I’m pretty happy with where you have landed and if everyone believed that birthing in hospital was 99.9% safe and birthing at home was 99.8% safe ..."

It doesn't sound like much until you consider how many babies would die. Homebirth advocates have said that their target is homebirth for 10% of all births each year. That would be 400,000 homebirths and that would result in the PREVENTABLE death of 400-800 babies per year. Homebirth would vault to being one of the top 10 causes of neonatal death each year. The neonatal mortality of the US would jump dramatically.

You don’t get to vote on the data.

Correct, and therefore, Johnson and Daviss do not get to make up their own definition of intrapartum death. They MUST use the US definition (which is the WHO definition). They can't pull neonatal deaths out of the group to make their data look better.

You don’t have to embrace that the congenital anomalies would be counted differently to consider treating them separately.

Let's try it your way. Among term babies, between 1/3 to 1/2 of neonatal deaths are due to congenital anomalies. Therefore the the neonatal mortality rate for white babies at term without congenital anomalies is between 0.45-0.6/1000. Johnson and Daviss claimed a neonatal mortality rate of 2/1000 after all their exclusions. By their reasoning, homebirth has a neonatal mortality rate TRIPLE or QUADRUPLE the neonatal mortality rate for white women in the hospital. Excluding congenital anomalies makes their figures worse, not better.

As regards the risk of peripartum hysterectomy: You say that the risk of peripartum hysterectomy after C-section is 1/1800. Let's assume that only a third of the C-sections were truly necessary (a C-section rate of 10% instead of 30%). By that definition the lives of 600 mothers and/or babies would be saved by 1800 C-sections. So the question would be, is it worth one peripartum hysterectomy to save the lives of 600 mothers/and or babies? That's 600+ lives compared to one uterus.

The bottom line is this: Homebirth increases the risk of neonatal death by "only" 1-2/1000. However, modern obstetrics is so spectacularly successful that 1-2/1000 is a big number. In fact, if homebirth comprised only 10% of all births (the target that homebirth advocates want), death at homebirth would become one of the top 10 causes of neonatal death and the US neonatal mortality rate would jump dramatically.

by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 1 Jun 2008, 9:48am Report this comment

Ok, well, let's just take these in order.

1. I don't understand what you're talking about with the "you don't get to vote on data". I agree with that and that is why I'm including the intrapartum deaths. It's J&D that took a two person vote and decided they didn't like the data they had. I am comparing it to data that includes intrapartum deaths. The NIH data says it's including all "live births". Therefore they would have included those deaths. That's why I think it's bogus for J&D to try and exclude them from their data just to bring their number down.

2. I don't see anything that leads me to believe that NIH is excluding intrapartum deaths. And, yes, I did find a reference to .3 in 1998. I used that because it was closer to the year the study was done. I found several references to the number being lower now. I didn't find anything that had a higher number. But even using your "as high as .7" number, the home birth population is outside that range having 5 in just over 5000 births.

3. I hear what you're saying about the congenital birth defects having a higher likelihood in Old Order Amish and Mennonite. If that's the case then I'm good with excluding them, but ONLY IF you exclude all the Old Order Amish and Mennonite births. You can't just throw out the deaths from the numerator saying "Ah, they're Amish." and then keep all the Amish in the denominator that had outcomes you liked.

4. Ok, I'm not a statistician, but I don't know what you mean that one is a "retrospective" and one is a "prospective". Both of them did exactly the same thing. They went back and looked at the outcomes for a given population. Now yes the population sizes were different, but I think over 5000 is a large enough sampling that the outcomes have statistical reliability.

5. Sigh. Ok, I'll go ahead and tell ya that I'm not gonna go read that. I am burned out on reading pro/con midwife papers. I'll take you at your word. It says someting nice about out of hospital midwife births. I got it. :-)

Now then, as for the whole CS debate, that's really more of an informed consent issue for me. Obviously many more C-sections occur in a hospital setting (in fact I'd hope all of them do). But many of those C-sections are elective. Both of my wife's were. And I believe the majority of the women who get a CS are informed of the risk prior to getting the CS. Also, I'm not sure that the study can accurately represent a comparison rate of C-Section's between these two populations. Taking a read on the women who've posted here, it looks to me like women who have selected home birth as an option would have been far far less likely to consent to anything less than emergency C-Section. In other words, if all 5418 of those home birth women had instead delivered in a hospital they most likely would have had a C-section rate far lower than the national average.

And finally, yes I agree with you. My comment is belittling safety. And I'm probably going to catch some flack for this, but I think women who choose homebirth are belittling safety. I can't think of any realistic situation where at the end of a homebirth you'd say "Whew, thank god, I was at home. My baby would have died if we were at the hospital when this happened." The converse, however, can realistically occur.

I think if safety is a priority for you, then there's no real way you can pick homebirth. And looking back over the comments here from women, the consistent theme seems to be what a wonderful experience it was to have a homebirth. And while some of them did say the "felt safer" that doesn't mean they were safer. I feel safer in my car than on an airplane. But statistically speaking, I'm probably not.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not judging. I drive instead of fly when I can. And heck, that's why I drive a little black sports car instead of a Volvo. I know it's probably less safe, but man it's a far better experience.

by JohnD Raleigh 1 Jun 2008, 12:06pm Report this comment
You all act like this is something new. These are the same old arguments that have been slung around since I had a home birth in 1983. The bottom line is that women should have a CHOICE how and where to give birth. I chose to have a home birth with my second child because I was traumatized by what happened to me and my baby in the hospital. I planned a home birth for my 3rd child but woke up in the night hemorraging from placenta abruptia. There was no hesitation. We hightailed it to the hospital only to be told by the attending OB that "Maybe this would teach me a lesson". It has been 22 years since that day and it still upsets me. Having my son at home (with a nurse-midwife) was one of the best experiences of my life and if given a choice, I would do it again in a heartbeat.
by Sailnchk Chapel Hill 1 Jun 2008, 12:11pm Report this comment

Amy: I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think your math on C-sections quite works out. Homebirth advocates would say that out of those 1800 where only 10% were truly necessary, that you'd still do those 600 and save those 600 women and babies.

So to be fair, I think what you'd need to look at is, worst-case scenario, how many unnecessary peripartum hysterectomies are being caused by the hosptial's rate of C-sections?

So in that case, you'd take a sample population of 18,000 (to make the math easy). Of those 18,000 women, then 10% are going to need a C-section. So 1800. Now let's say that all the women who elect homebirth that need C-sections, get a C-section. (May not be an accurate assumption, but we're looking at worst-case scenario here.) So in home-births, you're going to have 1 perinatal hysterectomy for every 18,000 women and that's pretty much unavoidable.

Now you look at those 18,000 women in the hospital. There you'd expect that 5400 C-sections occur. 1800 of those are necessary. The other 3600 will result in 2 avoidable perinatal hysterectomies for every 18000 women, or about .11 for every 1000.

Now thinking about this some more, to be fair, you also have to look at the fact that homebirths are averaging significantly less than 10% C-Sections. I'm not sure what this math will turn out but let's work through it. Let's say that homebirth is averaging a 4% C-Section rate. (That's slightly higher than what the BMJ study had.) Going off of our original assumption that 10% of women will need a C-section, then 6% don't get a CS when they need one. That means of our original 18000 women, 1080 of them aren't getting C-Sections that they need.

Ok well then I'm going to have to stop here because obviously you can't say that all of those missed C-Sections would result in death. That would mean your expected mortality rate would be 60 for every 1000 and that's not consistent with our data. Either not all "missed" C-sections result in death or the "10% of pregnancies require a C-section" isn't true.

by JohnD Raleigh 1 Jun 2008, 12:39pm Report this comment

OMG! I have found something even more telling than both the CPM correlation and the NFL team correlation!

Looking at the state ranks in 2003 (I still can't get to 2004 data), there is a shocking trend.

NONE of the top 10 states (NH, NM, MN, IA, UT, ME, SD, AL, OR, CA) are NASCAR strongholds.

And, even more importantly, 8 out of 10 of the bottom 10 states (AR, GA, NC, AL, TN, DE, MO, MA, MS, SC) ARE big into NASCAR.

Can this really be coincidence?!?!?

I don't know how they're doing it, but NASCAR is killing our babies.

Ok, I gotta run, the race is about to come on.

by JohnD Raleigh 1 Jun 2008, 12:50pm Report this comment
So it seems that what you're saying Sailnchk is "No, I didn't learn any kind of lesson from that."
by JohnD Raleigh 1 Jun 2008, 12:58pm Report this comment
Thank you for this article! My first son was born by C-Section in 2005 after an overly managed labor. Thankfully I was able to find a caring CPM to attend my homebirth in 2007. My son was beautifully born on our bed after a seven hour labor. Skin to skin contact was immediate, breastfeeding was initiated within the hour and I was treated as a person instead of a medical chart. I only wish I would have discovered homebirth sooner.
by hollyinNC Raleigh 1 Jun 2008, 4:29pm Report this comment
As both a scientist and a father, I come to this article with one question and one comment. First, why should we believe that the past statistics will indicate future success or failure of homebirth in America? As the article clearly states, homebirth is not generally encouraged, even where it is legal and regulated which makes these statistics inherently invalid. Practically outlawing homebirth in America has to have changed the level of success. For a real understanding, we can't use data from the US, and from what I've heard (from both sides!) is that other countries have clearly demonstrated the value of cooperative care that includes midwives and ob's. As for my comment, actually a data point. I plotted the data for my wife's blood pressure readings for the 12 weeks that we went to an OB for prenatal care, and then for the remainder of the pregnancy while we went to a free-standing birth center. There is a difference of over one standard deviation between the readings collected at the two offices (it was lower at the birth center). This doesn't mean much until it shows up as a controlled study in an established journal or something... but my point is subtle: while we talk about including or discarding a few cases, or "data points", it would be great to see some error bars in these arguments! I have a feeling that if the difference between the arguments is 5 or 7 out of 18 cases (in ~5000 births) the statistics are effectively equal given the large uncertainty.
by amcdawes Durham 2 Jun 2008, 8:14pm Report this comment

Ok, so I was going to stop posting on this article because honestly I was a little tired of it, but amcdawes raised a question that intrigued me. Not the "why should past statistics be used to predict the future", though. We do that all the time with Global Warming, crime rates, smoking & cancer, drunk driving, airline safety, etc... (Imagine a Tobacco company saying "Hey just because more smokers got cancer than non-smokers last year, that's no reason to think it'll be that way next year!")

Also, I don't agree that looking at other countries' data is going to give relevant data for the very reasons he gave: the environments are so different. Saying that in country X they have a mortality rate of Y isn't really relevant if I want to know if homebirth with a CPM is going to be safe for me here in NC.

No, what intrigued me was the question of statistical relevance. Would a difference of "only 5 or 7" be effectively equal? Essentially how do you know if a difference between two datasets is statistically relevant or just chance? For instance, let's say we observed 5132 in home births. And let's say that according to NIH data we would only expect 5 deaths. Are 13 deaths effectively equal to 11 deaths for such a large population? Are 9? 7? At what point is it just a random fluctuation?

Turns out, I'm not the first to ask that question. The answer is you have to calculate a chi-squared and a p-value. This is pretty involved, but there's a website that will do it for you. http://www.graphpad.com/quickcalcs/chisquared1.cfm

Long story short, let me share a couple of interesting bits of data. With a population of 5132, getting 13 deaths (or more) when you would expect 5 is considered to be "extremely statistically significant". And it's considered statistically relevant until you get down to 9 deaths when you expect 5, at which point it becomes "not quite statistically relevant" and lower.

Also, interestingly enough, with this relatively small population and low expected number of births the only way to actually prove homebirth to be safer in this study (in a statistically relevant manner), would have been to have 0 deaths. Even 1 death makes the data "not quite statistically relevant".

Anyways, I thought that was interesting and I learned something to boot.

by JohnD Raleigh 3 Jun 2008, 2:56am Report this comment
Much of this discussion has focused on neonatal and fetal mortality. But there is another category of mortality that we are not considering, and there I think the evidence points clearly towards the fact that overuse of medical interventions is killing and maiming women, and making their lives much more difficult. Just this weekend the NYTimes ran an article on insurance companies denying coverage to women who have had a previous cesarean. Insurance companies are tired, rightly, of paying for unnecessary surgeries, and with a third of births in the US now occurring through major abdominal surgery, it's not rocket science to figure out we have a problem. So women are between a rock and a hard place: Their doctors are often pushing them into surgery they don't need (I am leaving out elective c-sections for the moment) and then they can't get insurance.

http://wellpreserved.wordpress.com/2008/06/01/c-sections-and-insurance-in-the-new-york-times/

(http://tinyurl.com/6a88pb)

Unfortunately, not getting insurance may be the least of some families' worries. Ina May Gaskin recently wrote an excellent article for Mothering Magazine (March/April 2008) on the appalling maternal mortality rates in the U.S., and how we are not even counting most of them because states have no uniform and effective way of doing so. Here is a link to the article, but unfortunately you have to be a subscriber (well worth it, it's an amazing magazine):

http://www.mothering-digital.com/mothering/20080304/?pg=73

Here is a summary: http://cfmidwifery.blogspot.com/2008/02/maternal-mortality.html (http://tinyurl.com/5klu2m) Here is a quote: "Maternity-care systems in countries with low maternal death rates (the US is not among these) plan for the certainty that some percentage of previously healthy women will be in danger of a late postpartum hemorrhage, uterine or perineal infection, breastfeeding problem, postpartum depression, or some other post-birth complication requiring special attention. These countries -- Australia, England, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Sweden, and Wales, to name just a few -- send specially trained nurses to make home visits to new mothers during the first ten days following birth."

It should be noted that virtually the only kind of practitioner who follows this commonsense practice in the United States are midwives.

These countries actually work to prevent postnatal maternal death, in addition to compiling detailed accounts of each one and reports recommending ways to lessen them. The U.S. barely even keeps track of mothers who die after childbirth. The CDC admits that it's maternal death stats are likely underreported by a factor of three, and the U.S. isn't doing that well even with reported numbers.

So U.S. women are given some of the most medicalized births in the world -- and birth interventions are known to drastically increase maternal death, often days or weeks after birth -- then sent home quickly with little to no followup care. Sometimes their babies die in their homes with them, and nobody notices until its too late.

What's wrong with this? And it's is not immaterial that this scenario is exactly the opposite of what happens with midwives, especially homebirth midwives, who routinely do at least one and usually two home visits following birth. Midwives, on average, also help women to have drastically lower rates of the very interventions that are often associated with postnatal maternal death.

And despite the inferences of Dasher from Durham, it is well established that prenatal care attended by midwives lowers rates of preterm birth, low-birthweight babies and other complications such as preeclampsia, regardless of where women under their care give birth.

Even using the CDC's own underreported numbers, the U.S. has 7.5 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births, four times higher than it should be. And there has been no improvement in the U.S. maternal death rate since 1982. These are appalling statistics. The rate of maternal death for black women in the U.S. for 2004 was almost 35 deaths per 100,000. Most countries with rates like that are applying for international aid. And those are the CDC's grossly underreported numbers.

What is wrong with birth in this country?

This article, by a U.S.-trained doctor who spent 15 years as the WHO director of women and children's health, is a start: http://www.mothering.com/articles/pregnancy_birth/birth_preparation/risks.html (http://tinyurl.com/5b4bgl)

And death and lack of insurance isn't the only problem for women who have unnecessarily complicated labors that land them on the operating table with a c-section (and I say unnecessarily complicated because clinics such as The Farm Midwifery Clinic run by Ina May Gaskin in Tennessee have shockingly low rates of just about every kind of intervention, including c-sections at about a tenth of the national average, with a cross-section of the population) also face problems in the future, including fertility problems and an increased risk of uterine rupture in their next pregnancy.

Complications from c-sections are five times that of vaginal birth (NIH, 1981). Maternal death rates from c-sections are four to five times higher than vaginal birth. C-sections cause far greater rates of bowel problems, future miscarriage and other fertility problems than vaginal birth. Perinatal mortality is also higher in subsequent births, as future babies are statistically born smaller, sooner and sicker.

All of this and maternal death rates are going up in the U.S. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_19.pdf

It's worth mentioning too, that the c-section rates tripled before malpractice became the issue it is today. And countries with far less maternal and perinatal mortality rates than ours have c-section rates in the 10 percent range, whereas ours is more than double that in most states and more than triple that in others.

This is a long way of saying that this debate about access to midwifery care isn't just about fetal and neonate deaths. And it's not just about women wanting to have a more pleasurable birth experience for themselves -- a demeaning accusation the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists makes in its statement on the subject (http://www.acog.org/from_home/publications/press_releases/nr02-06-08-2.cfm).

It's also about women. Women dying. Women having a cloud over the rest of their reproductive and sexual lives because of choices that were made for them.

Women should have a choice in what happens to their bodies. Contrary to popular myth, these choices are routinely denied them in hospitals. OBGYNs could stop a lot of the clamoring for homebirth and direct-entry midwives if they would just fix the disaster that hospital birth is for many women and their babies. Regardless, women deserve a choice.

by CharlieL , Saxapahaw 4 Jun 2008, 3:36pm Report this comment
"I think the evidence points clearly towards the fact that overuse of medical interventions is killing and maiming women" That's just another mistruth of homebirth advocacy. Modern obstetrics has dropped the maternal mortality 99% in the last 100 years. There is not another area of medicine where there has been such spectacular success. In contrast, midwifery has dropped the maternal mortality rate 0%. "These countries actually work to prevent postnatal maternal death, in addition to compiling detailed accounts of each one and reports recommending ways to lessen them. The U.S. barely even keeps track of mothers who die after childbirth. The CDC admits that it's maternal death stats are likely underreported by a factor of three, and the U.S. isn't doing that well even with reported numbers." That's flat out false. The US has one of the best reporting systems for maternal mortality in the world. ALL countries are underreporting maternal mortality. The US is one of the few making strenuous efforts to change that. The US has one of the lowest maternal mortality rates in the world, which is especially impressive considering that the US has the highest risk population in the first world, and does not have universal health care. "it is well established that prenatal care attended by midwives lowers rates of preterm birth, low-birthweight babies and other complications such as preeclampsia, regardless of where women under their care give birth." You are deliberately mixing up two different kinds of midwives. Care by certified NURSE midwives has excellent outcomes. Care by direct entry midwives increases the risk of bad outcomes, because direct entry midwives are undereducated and undertrained. US direct entry midwives could not qualify to be licensed in any other country in the industrialized world. Homebirth advocacy is routinely based on mistruths, half truths and outright deceptions. You have just repeated several of them. If you want to know the truth, you need to read the actual scientific literature, not Mothering Magazine. In 2003, the US added birth attendant and place of delivery to birth certificates. The complete linked birth infant death datasets from 2003-2004 have been publically released on the CDC Wonder website. This is the first large scale dataset of planned homebirth that was not prepared by homebirth advocates. It shows that the most dangerous type of planned birth in the US is homebirth with a DEM. Homebirth with a DEM has DOUBLE the neonatal death rate of hospital birth with an MD (all risk women) and TRIPLE the neonatal death rate of hospital birth with a CNM (low risk women). No wonder the Midwives Alliance of North America (MANA) is hiding their safety statistics.
by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 4 Jun 2008, 8:06pm Report this comment
For those who want to read the scientific research for themselves, presented in an easy-to-read format and heavily referenced, check out Obstetrical Myths Verses Research Realities . The hundreds upon hundreds of studies abstracted in that book demonstrate clearly how little of OB care in the US is actually "evidence-based medicine." There is a section on homebirth, as well as loads of other relevant sections, including: gestational diabetes, breech labor, vaginal births after c-sections, active verses expectant management of labor, postdates, and many others.
by CharlieL , Saxapahaw 4 Jun 2008, 9:09pm Report this comment
Amy, that CDC Wonder website is pretty cool. But I wasn't able to "torture" the data to get the results you got.

Every permutation I put in, I still got the midwives as having lower deaths per 1000 than the MDs or the DOs.

What parameters did you use on your search that showed otherwise?

by JohnD Raleigh 4 Jun 2008, 9:58pm Report this comment
Btw, also looking at that CDC Wonder website, I wouldn't panic too much about women dying during pregnancy. According to that the only things less likely to kill a woman in America are Diseases of the ear and Diseases of the eye. (And Codes for special purpose, whatever that is.) That puts pregnancy, childbirth, and puerperium a distant 17th on a list of 20.
by JohnD Raleigh 4 Jun 2008, 10:13pm Report this comment
"For those who want to read the scientific research for themselves, presented in an easy-to-read format and heavily referenced, check out Obstetrical Myths Verses Research Realities." No, that book is filled with the mistruths, half truths and outright deceptions of homebirth advocacy topped off with "bibliography salad," a mishmash of scientific citations that don't actually support Henci Goer's points. If you want to know what the scientific research really shows, you need to read the research itself. Homebirth advocates are hoping that you don't.
by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 4 Jun 2008, 10:46pm Report this comment
John D:

"Amy, that CDC Wonder website is pretty cool. But I wasn't able to "torture" the data to get the results you got."

Direct entry midwives (referred to as "other midwives" in the CDC database) care for only low risk women at term. In addition, the overwhelming majority of DEM patients (more than 90%) are white, which is a lower risk group than other races. To make the comparison as close as possible, I restricted the dataset to white women at 37+ weeks. I also looked only at neonatal mortality (deaths from birth to 28 days) not infant mortality, which includes deaths from 1 month to 1 year.

I ordered the results by place of delivery and by birth attendant.

The neonatal mortality rate for MD attended hospital birth (all risk levels) was 0.61/1000, for CNM attended hospital birth (low risk) 0.38/1000, and for DEM attended homebirths 1.15/1000. Keep in mind that in reality the MD statistics are lower and the DEM statistics are higher than these. That's because homebirth transfers who gave birth in the hospital are included in the MD hospital group and should actually be in the DEM group since they intended to deliver at home.

by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 4 Jun 2008, 10:59pm Report this comment
Ok, that makes sense. I was using >28 weeks as the stricture on the gestational age, but that doesn't really make sense. I suspect there are precious few homebirths for women who go into labor between 28 weeks and 36 weeks. Ok, I'm back to being a believer.
by JohnD Raleigh 5 Jun 2008, 1:07am Report this comment
Would "Amy Tuteur, MD" be so kind as to post her credentials, current occupation and medical license/active board certification so that we may all know who she is and what qualifications she has. Her identity is very mysterious and a websearch does not show her to be a licensed physician, although it seems she may have been in the past. This would help lend some credibility to her comments. I would also be interested to know how she became such an anti-homebirth activist.
by new member NC 5 Jun 2008, 9:53am Report this comment
Newmember writes: "...her identity is very mysterious."

Ok, kids, this is what we call "irony".

by JohnD Raleigh 5 Jun 2008, 11:16am Report this comment
Because homebirth is so rare in the U.S., I think it's wise to look to other countries where it is more common, and thus have greater sample sizes, for guidance. So I am going to just type word-for-word the abstract of a study of homebirths attended by direct-entry midwives in Holland, as it appeared in Obstetrical Myths Versus Research Realities :

{My note. Quotes denote original text of the study. Brackets all included by author of book.}

Tew M and Damstra-Wijmenga SMI. Safest birth attendants: recent Dutch evidence. Midwifery 1991; 7:55-63

"In all economically developed countries except Holland, maternity care has come to be organised so as to give full effect to the theory that childbirth is always safer if it takes place under the management of obstetricians in a hospital provided with the technological equipment for carrying out interventions in the natural process. It is a remarkable fact that obstetricians have never at any time had valid evidence to support the theory they have so successfully propagated."

In Holland, midwives are autonomous practitioners. They train directly as midwives and are not required to have a prior nursing degree. They are the primary providers of maternity care, and they do not practice under obstetrical supervision. About one-third of the population gives birth at home. This unique situation allows an evaluation of perinatal mortality rate (PMR) by midwife versus obstetrician in a system where obstetricians do not control maternity care. Since high-risk births are transferred to in-hospital obstetric care, the effect of this on the PMR for obstetrician-attended hospital births must be taken into account. Data covered all Dutch births during 1986.

In descending order, the PMR was 18.9 per 1000 for obstetricians in a hospital, 4.5 per 1000 for general practitioners at home, 2.1 per 1000 for midwives in a hospital, and 1.0 per 1000 for midwives at home (p < 0.0005 for adjacent pairs). The same gradient is found for all subgroups of parity and age ranges except for mothers over age 34, where PMRs for midwives did not differ for home versus hospital. The PMR for all obstetricians (hospital) versus all midwives (home or hospital) was 18.9 per 1000 versus 1.5 per 1000 (p < 0.000001). Differences were significant for all gestational ages except below 33 weeks (185.5 per 1000 versus 169.8 per 1000, p < 0.6). At term (> 36 weeks), the PMRs for obstetrician versus midwife were 8.1 per 1000 versus 0.8 per 1000 (p < 0.000001). For the 98.2% of babies born after 32 weeks gestation, PMRs are nearly 12 times lower (11.9 per 1000 versus 1.0 per 1000) for midwife-attended births, and [as shown above] for babies before 32 weeks, place of birth and attendant made no difference. No possible confounding factor can explain the 10-fold difference in PMR for obstetricians versus midwives. "At a stretch" it might account for a three- to four-fold difference. "Indeed, [the data] support the contrary hypothesis, that obstetricians' care actually provokes and adds to the dangers."

by CharlieL , Saxapahaw 6 Jun 2008, 11:34am Report this comment

"Because homebirth is so rare in the U.S., I think it's wise to look to other countries where it is more common, and thus have greater sample sizes, for guidance. So I am going to just type word-for-word the abstract of a study of homebirths attended by direct-entry midwives in Holland, as it appeared in Obstetrical Myths Versus Research Realities"

Thank you. That gives me the perfect opportunity to show how Henci Goer and other homebirth advocates mislead lay people with "scientific evidence".

According to the World Health Organization 2006 report on perinatal mortality, the Netherlands has a HIGHER perinatal death rate than the US.

Second, direct entry midwives in Holland are midwives who have been through a 3-4 year university based program that includes hospital based experience and training. Dutch midwives have extensive training and experience in the management of complications. Dutch midwives manage their patients in the hospital and at home. If they transfer a patient to the hospital, they can care for them in the hospital.

In contrast, American direct entry midwives are high school graduates that attend storefront midwifery "schools" often by correspondence course. They have no experience in managing complications because they do not train in hospitals. American DEMs have a fraction of the education and training of Dutch midwives, and would not be considered qualified in the Netherlands.

Third, any comparison of outcomes between MDs and midwives and between home and hospital must adjust for risk, which this study (deliberately) did not do. It's hardly a suprise that higher risk patients had higher perinatal mortality rates. That group includes premature births, complications of pregnancy and pre-existing medical conditions.

Homebirth advocacy is based on mistruths, half truths and outright deceptions. This is one of the most common deceptive claims.

by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 6 Jun 2008, 1:28pm Report this comment
"Second, direct entry midwives in Holland are midwives who have been through a 3-4 year university based program that includes hospital based experience and training. Dutch midwives have extensive training and experience in the management of complications. Dutch midwives manage their patients in the hospital and at home. If they transfer a patient to the hospital, they can care for them in the hospital." Okay, so we agree on something. Let's create this very same system in the United States. Where midwives can go to school and be taught by other MIDWIVES and learn to practice midwifery, not learning to be lesser-than obstetricians, which is what obstetricians in the United States have repeatedly sought to do instead. Then midwives could practice in the MIDWIFERY model of care outside the purview of obstetricians and be viewed as peers. When there is pathology or a need for surgery, an obstetrician could step in. Otherwise, their roles as midwives would be totally respected and revered.

And YES, please, let's have (independent) midwives have hospital privileges in the United States so they can follow their patients and provide continuity of care. We finally agree on something.

We don't have this system in the United States because our midwives are somehow inferior. We don't have this system in the United States because OBGYN's don't want to have such as system, and they control all the levers of power.

And with regard to the Dutch study, it did, in fact, address the issue of differing levels of risks in the groups. But high-risk or not, a 10-fold increase in bad outcomes says as much about the model of care as it does about the patients.

And let's please stop pretending that the only negative outcomes of traumatic births, regardless of where they occur, is death, as if every alive patient is the same. What does it say about our culture that the vast majority of our children are quite literally born into violence? I was literally ripped out of my mother with forceps. Please don't tell me that's not violence. Oh, and she was strapped to a table on her back, pushing that baby (me) up hill, after multiple drug interventions were literally forced on her, many of which are known to slow progress (epidurals) and to stress babies (Pitocin).

If we want to create a culture that reveres life, we have to start with birth. Revering life means more than everybody lives. Regardless of what we do, some babies are going to die. I am most concerned about how the vast majority who live (regardless of where they are born) come into the world and eventually function in our society. We are not doing that well.

by CharlieL , Saxapahaw 6 Jun 2008, 7:12pm Report this comment

"And YES, please, let's have (independent) midwives have hospital privileges in the United States so they can follow their patients and provide continuity of care. We finally agree on something."

We already have midwives in the US who have hospital privileges. They are called certified nurse midwives and their outcomes are dramatically better than those of the poorly trained direct entry midwives.

As for the "independent" part, no midwife is truly independent of obstetricians, otherwise a substantial portion (4-5% or more) of their patients would die. The difference between CNMs and DEMs is that CNMs recognize that dependence and interact professionally and collegially with obstetricians. In contrast, DEMs like to pretend that they don't "need" obstetricians. Their attitude is just another factor that contributes to homebirth with a DEM being the most dangerous type of planned birth in the US. As long as direct entry midwives require obstetricians to save the lives of a substantial proportion of their patients, they are not "independent" and shouldn't waste time and energy pretending otherwise.

"What does it say about our culture that the vast majority of our children are quite literally born into violence?"

It says that some people are so misguided as to actually believe their own ridiculous hyperbole. The are so self-involved and so blind to real suffering in the world that they dare to claim that operative delivery (which they don't remember and might have saved their life) is in some way equivalent to the real violence that people actually suffer.

"Revering life means more than everybody lives."

Says who? Are homebirth advocates now the arbiters of which babies deserve to live?

What are you trying to say? It's okay for some babies to die so that a few women can have the birth "experience" that they want?

by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 6 Jun 2008, 8:41pm Report this comment
"What are you trying to say? It's okay for some babies to die so that a few women can have the birth "experience" that they want?"

This flippant attitude is not only condescending to women, but a huge disservice to their babies. This line of thinking would have us believe that how we come into the world doesn't matter (or that a cascade of medical interventions at times itself doesn't kill babies).

That babies don't have positive or negative experiences and even subconscious memories of their own births that affect them for life. Piles and piles of neuroscience and other areas of research are proving this old way of thinking completely out of step with what we now know about babies' first memories.

For those who are interested, the book Pre-Parenting: Nurturing Your Child From Conception has a great deal to say on this subject. It's written by a doctor: Thomas Verney, M.D.

Also, the DVD What Babies Want is also very worthwhile: http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/prod.cfm/ct/9/pid/1286

It's really about time that women who chose to have more gentle and nonviolent births, both for themselves and their babies, stop being vilified as selfish and misguided by those who believe routine and unnecessary medical interventions have no consequences for both mother and baby.

It's highly ironic that we treat pregnant women as fragile and helpless -- don't eat anything that may contain bacteria, nevermind that our bodies are a sea of microoganisms, and don't consume any alcohol for fear of damaging the baby -- but we are perfectly willing to pump laboring women full of drugs, pretending that those substances don't reach the baby within moments.

We tell women not to sleep on their stomaches for fear of putting undue pressure on the baby, but then we are perfectly willing to require women to labor supine on their backs, pushing their babies against gravity and through a smaller pelvic opening, for the convenience of doctors and nurses -- only hours later to declare her body unfit for the job, necessitating forceps or a vacuum to remove the baby, and if that fails cutting a hole in her abdomen and depriving that child the experience of being born.

For what? For some stupid hospital rules, under which the vast, vast majority of Certified Nurse Midwives have to practice and were trained under. I'll take my midwife trained by another philosophy entirely, thank you very much.

As for the notion that direct-entry midwives have worse outcomes than CNMs or OBs, I think these statistics from the Farm Midwifery Clinic in Tennessee are relevant. The women included in this statistics represent a pretty good slice of America, as well, as many of those who lived on the Farm were of many races, ages and backgrounds. http://www.naturalbirthandbabycare.com/farm-statistics.html

http://www.thefarm.org/charities/mid.html

http://www.salon.com/people/bc/1999/06/01/gaskin/print.html

Notice that Ina May Gaskin, the founder of the clinic, has no nursing degree. Nonetheless, the outcomes at the Farm should be model for birth in the United States.

by CharlieL , Saxapahaw 7 Jun 2008, 2:35pm Report this comment

"Notice that Ina May Gaskin, the founder of the clinic, has no nursing degree. Nonetheless, the outcomes at the Farm should be model for birth in the United States."

The outcomes at the Farm were terrible. The perinatal death rate at the Farm was 10/1000. The neonatal death rate for white women at the same time was in the range of 6/1000 and that includes high risk women.

Of course the authors of the Farm study don't mention that. Instead of comparing homebirth at the Farm with hospital birth for low risk women during the same year, they compare homebirth at the Farm with a study of HIGH RISK hospital birth for the same years.

I notice that you have avoided giving a direct answer to my question: "It's okay for some babies to die so that a few women can have the birth "experience" that they want?"

I guess that you do think it is acceptable for some babies to die so their mothers can have the birth "experience" that they want. You are entitled to your opinion, but I can assure you that most mothers are much more interested in the health of their baby than the quality of their "experience".

"Piles and piles of neuroscience and other areas of research are proving this old way of thinking completely out of step with what we now know about babies' first memories."

No, there is no scientific evidence in neuroscience or neonatology that shows that babies remember or are affected by mode of delivery.

by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 7 Jun 2008, 4:03pm Report this comment
This will be my last posted comment.

"No, there is no scientific evidence in neuroscience or neonatology that shows that babies remember or are affected by mode of delivery."

This is patently false. I encourage others to explore this issue on their own. Dr. Verney's book discusses this at length and cites sources perhaps of interest to those seeking more information.

But even if you were correct, which you aren't, that there is no evidence that babies retain memories of their own births and are affected by the quality of that experience -- something mothers have intuitively known for much longer than science has -- since we can never prove a negative, you certainly couldn't prove that it's not true. So it seems awfully arrogant to me to deny another human being the experience of coming into the world peacefully on the very small chance it's going to save a life.

What this discussion is ultimately about is what we value. Our medical culture has shown over and over again that all we seem to value is a live body and our overwhelming fear of death leads us to make decisions that have negative consequences for those who live. There is quite a gradient between living and thriving, and it doesn't take someone particularly aware to see that many American kids these days are not thriving. We are willing to subject women and babies to an enormous amount of trauma to perhaps save a few babies.

Wouldn't it be interesting to track the life-long prognosis of babies born at The Farm and compare them to the general population? Dr. Verney discusses some studies in his book that suggest that birth trauma has a direct and significant correlation with increased rates of criminality and other pathological behavior later in life. And regardless, there is quite a bit in the psychological and medical literature documenting different types of birth traumas with specific emotional, mental and physical issues later in life. Forceps deliveries are known to cause life-long neck and shoulder pain in some individuals, and I am one of them.

Denying that babies are affected by the quality of their own births seems to me to be an all-too-convenient excuse to subject them to all matter of pain and fear -- being ripped out rather than participating in the process of being born; being separated from their mothers, the only being familiar to them in the world, at birth so they can be handled by people unfamiliar to them and who almost certainly don't have the same compassion and tenderness as their own parents; denying babies the ability to immediately bond and imprint with their mothers; subjecting them to cold, sterile nurseries instead of letting them reacquaint with the sound of their mothers heartbeat; subjecting the overwhelming majority of their mothers to unnecessary and painful procedures that affect their ability to bond and care for their infants.

Is this a model really worth defending? How many doctors have ever even witnessed a home birth as simply a point of comparison? It was only 25 years ago that we still routinely performed brain, heart and other major surgery on newborns without anesthesia because doctors believed newborns didn't feel pain or remember it if they did. Denying that babies in the process of being born and thereafter are sentient beings is not a record that I would like to stand behind.

"I notice that you have avoided giving a direct answer to my question: 'It's okay for some babies to die so that a few women can have the birth "experience" that they want?'

"I guess that you do think it is acceptable for some babies to die so their mothers can have the birth 'experience' that they want. You are entitled to your opinion, but I can assure you that most mothers are much more interested in the health of their baby than the quality of their 'experience'."

And you are entitled to yours, but don't impose your value system on my family. That's exactly what laws like the ones in North Carolina that expressly prohibit independent midwives function to do.

I have addressed your question, primarily by pointing out that it is not selfish for women to care about their birth experience, because it affects their babies as much or as more as it affects them. And what if the tremendously creative and empowering process of birth is Nature's ultimate preparation for parenthood? In any case, it seems extraordinarily unwise to routinely mess with that which we have so little understanding. It seems rather short-sided and narrow-minded to systematically deny that the birth experience affects the long-term health and wellbeing of human beings.

"Instead of comparing homebirth at the Farm with hospital birth for low risk women during the same year, they compare homebirth at the Farm with a study of HIGH RISK hospital birth for the same years."

Again, untrue. The Farm birth statistics were not compared to high-risk births. They were compared to 14,033 physician-attended hospital deliveries. It would be even more interesting to see perinatal deaths on The Farm -- at least 9 out of 17 of which would have had the same outcome had they occurred in a hospital -- if the sample size was larger. The lack of an large sample size continually works against homebirth studies.

The study was published in the American Journal of Public Health and here is the abstract:

"Pregnancy outcomes of 1707 women, who enrolled for care between 1971 and 1989 with a home birth service run by lay midwives in rural Tennessee, were compared with outcomes from 14,033 physician- attended hospital deliveries derived from the 1980 US National Natality/National Fetal Mortality Survey. Based on rates of perinatal death, of low 5-minute Apgar scores, of a composite index of labor complications, and of use of assisted delivery, the results suggest that, under certain circumstances, home births attended by lay midwives can be accomplished as safely as, and with less intervention than, physician-attended hospital deliveries."

http://www.thefarm.org/charities/mid.html

Furthermore, many women chose to have their babies at The Farm even though they would have automatically been classified as "high-risk," e.g., twins, maternal age over 35, vaginal birth after cesarean, etc.

Ultimately, this is about choice. I don't really care if you agree with the choices of women to have birth at home with direct-entry midwives or not, but I do care if you impinge on the right of others to do so.

Even if you take what in my opinion is the extraordinarily preposterous view that how we come into the world doesn't have an impact on how we interact, learn to trust and function as human beings, that doesn't mean that those who value the birth experience as sacred and beautiful don't hold a perfectly valid opinion to the contrary, and have every right to express that belief in the way they chose to raise their families, starting with conception and birth. The only people seeking to impose their views on others are those who wish to continue to deny families their right to bring children into the world as they see fit. North Carolina is one of the states still in the dark on this subject.

by CharlieL , Saxapahaw 7 Jun 2008, 7:23pm Report this comment

"Pregnancy outcomes of 1707 women, who enrolled for care between 1971 and 1989 with a home birth service run by lay midwives in rural Tennessee, were compared with outcomes from 14,033 physician- attended hospital deliveries derived from the 1980 US National Natality/National Fetal Mortality Survey."

And what is the 1980 US National Natality/National Fetal Mortality Survey? You don't know and the author is couting on the fact that you don't know and would not bother to check. The US NN-FMS is a group of HIGH risk births.

The NN-NFMS was not designed to yield mortality data for 1980. It had an entirely different purpose. The NN-NFMS was designed to obtain health data that was not on the original birth certificate in order to analyze that data. So, for example, the NN-NFMS asked about the use of ultrasound during pregnancy, which does not appear on the birth certificate. The investigators also collected data that did appear on the birth certificate in order to determine the accuracy of the NN-NFMS data.

The NN-NFMS deliberately oversampled high risk births. This fact is acknowledged within the Farm paper, but it is not explained. It means that the sample used in the NN-NFMS has a higher risk level than the population in general, and is much higher risk than any lower risk group. As expected, the neonatal mortality rate in the NN-NFMS sample is HIGHER than the overall neonatal mortality rate for the entire country in 1980.

The NN-NFMS is known to be a tiny (0.3% of births) NON-REPRESENTATIVE fraction of the deliveries in 1980. That is deliberate on the part of the authors because they were using it for something entirely different, but it means that under no circumstances can the NN-NFMS mortality data be substituted for the 1980 birth certificate data.

Homebirth advocacy is based in large part on mistruths, half truths and outright deceptions. This is one of the outright deceptions. The author deliberately used a HIGH risk group for comparison because the comparable low risk group had a mortality rate 1/2 the mortality rate of homebirth at the Farm.

by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 7 Jun 2008, 8:52pm Report this comment
here is a link that addresses dr. amy's misstatements about maternal mortality... addressed by ina may gaskin. http://www.blogher.com/u-s-mothers-are-dying-why-dont-we-know#comment-43136
by carey (tallulaheden@hotmail.com) , south carolina 8 Jun 2008, 10:39pm Report this comment

"here is a link that addresses dr. amy's misstatements about maternal mortality"

Just keep in mind that when I pointed out all the factual errors and deceptions in Ms. Gaskins post, in a post that followed it, amygeekgirl removed it because it showed that Gaskin was flat out wrong and deliberately deceptive to boot.

Imagine if someone created a publicity campaign to highlight lung cancer mortality and never mentioned smoking, but only referred to deaths associated with chemotherapy. That would make no sense. Yet that is just what Ina May Gaskin has done with the "Safe Motherhood Quilt", which purportedly exists to highlight maternal mortality, but never mentions pre-eclampsia, hemorrhage or pregnancy complications, and instead refers almost exclusively to deaths associated with obstetric interventions.

Look at the page of "related articles". There are no scientific papers about maternal mortality. There is nothing about the epidemiology of maternal mortality. Twelve of thirteen articles are about medical mistakes. Gaskin wants to leave the impression that maternal mortality is caused by obstetric interventions. Indeed, in her public discussions of the quilt, she is quite explicit. In reality, as Gaskin almost surely knows, iatrogenic deaths represent a tiny fractions of maternal mortality.

The Safe Motherhood Quilt is not about maternal mortality. It is a quilt designed to publicize bad outcomes associated with obstetric interventions. Anyone who ACTUALLY cared about maternal mortality would not be criticizing obstetric interventions, since interventions save tens of thousands of maternal lives each year. Anyone who cared about maternal mortality would be drawing attention to the causes of maternal mortality, and to the social and economic conditions that prevent some mothers from getting the interventions that they need.

by AmyTuteurMD NC , yes 9 Jun 2008, 7:05am Report this comment
I've had quite an enjoyable time reading everyone's comments. However, after all the mud has been slung, the facts skewed, and statistics presented and twisted, the bottom line is still about CHOICE. Everyone is responsible for educating themselves about the pros/cons of their particular choice. I have no doubt there are some half truths regarding homebirth but there are just as many misconceptions about hospital delivery. For example, in the past week, two pregnant women have asked me if they had to get an epidural after arriving at the hospital. When I responded with a resounding NO, both women said their OB (different doctors) told them that was their only option. Again, it is about CHOICE. Someone asked that Dr Amy identify herself and give her qualifications...did I miss that response?
by CarpenterBabe NC , Salisbury 13 Jun 2008, 5:37pm Report this comment
Amy Tuteur has never responded publicly regarding her credentials which IMO makes them dubious at best. It seems likely however that she has a medical degree and trained in obstetrics but the rest is a mystery. She certainly has a right to her opinion, but there is nothing to suggest that hers is any more valid than ay other random poster. I applaud her enthusiasm though misguided it may be.
by new member NC 17 Jun 2008, 5:24pm Report this comment
I think it is time to sum up and come to closure on safety, training and certification, and regulatory considerations.

With regard to safety:

First of all, yes, the chi-square test is a tool that is often used in looking for statistically significant differences. If the objective is to look for differences in outcomes arising from the setting, then it is important to address confounding factors in the data. There are many independent variables that affect the probabilities including presentation (i.e. head down vs. breech), lifestyle affecting health, economics, parity (how many babies the mom has had) etc…

I know john has studied the data in the CPM2000 study, but for completeness, let’s review the outcomes. There were 4 fetal deaths that delivered at home, 5 intrapartum deaths (I know there is a difference of opinion here relative to the bins), and 9 neonatal deaths. First of all, the 4 fetal deaths would not be counted as intrapartum or neonatal deaths in hospital statistics. They would be counted as fetal deaths or perinatal deaths. Fetal deaths are counted separately.

As for the intrapartum deaths, one was a precautionary transport in first stage that was allowed to proceed vaginally in hospital. The planned home setting was irrelevant and this illustrates the limited abilities to prevent bad outcomes in hospital. There were 2 bad outcomes associated with breech presentation (out of 80 total). The safest form of delivery for breech presentation may very well be planned C/S and these are not considered low risk. The thing to keep in mind here is that this discussion is generally to assess safety for “low risk women”. There are women who will not birth in hospital even with breech presentation and it is far better that they have a midwife than to go unassisted. In any event, in the discussion of safety for low risk women, it is appropriate to remove the breeches (2 bad outcomes and 80 total pregnancies). The fourth was a severe bleeding complication that would not likely have been resolvable in hospital. The fifth was a severe cord accident. Nevertheless, the appropriate number of intrapartum bad outcomes to assess for low risk women is 3.

Now for the neonatal period. We’ve discussed that there is an excess of congenital anomalies with the Amish and Mennonite families. John is right that if we take out the outcomes then we must take out the entire population. There were 467 Amish and 194 Mennonite families that should be removed. As for the other 6 bad outcomes, 2 were SIDS, 1 likely pulmonary defect or possible SIDS, 1 GBS disease undetected in hospital. So, the setting was likely irrelevant, and it is appropriate to count 6 neonatal deaths for the population we describe as low risk.

The appropriate analysis basis values for low risk women are then 3 intrapartum and 6 neonatal deaths in (5418 – 467 Amish – 194 Mennonite – 80 breech – 13 twins) = 4664 births. Even if you place all 3 intrapartum deaths in the neonatal period, the chi-square test will conclude they are indifferent. Alternatively you can compare 5/5000 to 6/4664 neonatal deaths and conclude they are equivalent by inspection.

Now this is just one aspect of safety. We know the C/S rate is way too high (>30% nationwide) and we know there is an excess of maternal mortality with C/S; although, the probability is lower for a maternal mortality as compared to a neonatal death. We also know that the likelihood of a hysterectomy is greatly increased with C/S (lost opportunity babies). Furthermore, the frequency of premature low birth weight babies is much lower for us due to improved maternal health associated with midwifery care which will resulted in fewer bad outcomes when we look at the entire perinatal period. With a circumspect view, it is easy to conclude planned home birth is safer. Now, if a woman feels safest birthing in hospital, then the hospital is the perfect setting for her. For women who choose to birth at home, it is outrageous to declare them out of process and deny them care and normalcy.

While Amy is quite vocal on this, the obstetrical community of practice is not all on the same page here. I urge everyone to read (it is not long) the joint RCOG/RCM statement on home birth from the UK.

http://www.rcog.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=2023

With regard to training and certification:

We had a very thorough evaluation performed comparing the clinical requirements to obtain the CPM vs. CNM credential, and it was presented to the House Select Committee on Licensing Midwives in March. The conclusion was clear that the clinical requirements are comparable related to providing care during the childbearing year. Keep in mind that the CPM credential is accredited by the same organization that accredits the CNM credential. Yes, the training is largely in the clinical setting, as opposed to a classroom setting.

With regard to regulatory considerations:

This is very easy. Some women will always choose to birth at home and they deserve access to care. The national standard for midwives attending women at home is the CPM. More and more states are licensing CPMs and no state is going backwards. There are women in North Carolina birthing unassisted at home because they do not have access to credentialed, licensed midwives. Aside from assuring access to care, licensure also assures that the standards of care are maintained. Clearly the correct action is to license CPMs.

From every perspective, increasing access to credentialed, regulated midwives is good for North Carolina just like it is for the states with the best perinatal mortality statistics. I will provide some coaching to my adversaries, however, on how to minimize the planned home birth population. Simply address the quality of care in hospital, and never again will there be a woman who says “I understand the logic related to being in close proximity to obstetrical problem solving when birthing, but I have birthed in hospital and I was traumatized, and I am not going to do that again.” Fix that and they can achieve their goal of minimizing the home birth population, but there will always be women who choose to birth at home. Trampling liberty is not going to solve our problems.

Russ Fawcett

Legislative Chair, North Carolina Friends of Midwives

by Russ Fawcett NC 28 Jun 2008, 10:45pm Report this comment
While I have read and think that Dr. Tuteur's comments are well documented, her tone is what bothers me the most. But, in all fairness, let me defend her for a moment. I have read some of the other articles she has written on home births and on birthing in general, and she advocates very strongly against doctors/hospitals and the medical industry in general who perform unnecessary invasive and general procedures on pregnant women. I remember reading a post in which she argues very stongly against the rise in C-sections and how doctors especially in emergency rooms have the tendency to practice "defensive medicine", where they do procedures that are not necessary in order to keep from being sued. She really stands alone in some aspects as a voice of advocacy against the "system" which many of those associated with the home birth/midwifery movement do as well. So, as to her defense, she is not the devil some of you are making her out to be. And more, I think she actually agrees, though I can't speak for her, that there is reason to question the safety and care given by the standard medical industry in some aspects. Saying that, Dr. Tuteur, whether your points prove to be true scientifically or not (if you ever get your hands on those dastardly secret midwife homebirth statistics you keep going on and on about), you come off as a whiny, elitist snob who (although I know this is probably not true) cares more about proving you are right than about the people who you are preaching to and claim to be protecting. And this, most bluntly, is why these women don't like going to doctors like you or anyone else when having a child. You treat them like they are a medical condition, not like a person who is deeply in love with the little baby inside them and wants to experience a deep, emotional and lasting bond with them in the comfort of their own homes without the coldness and unnecessary procedures that go on in the hospitals of America. Can you not see this? It really is the main crux of the argument, simply put, that people hate know-it-all, seemingly cold and insensitive doctors who care more about statistics; their next patient; when they are finally going to get to go home; not having to go in to deliver a baby at 3am; unnecessary procedures; than caring about the deeply sensitive emotional state of the mother and her deep desire to bond with her newborn baby outside of all that mess that the standard American healthcare system brings with them.
by astoria Hillsborough 3 Jul 2008, 9:59am Report this comment

I just bumped into this article and read most of your posts. Dr. Tuteur, I am a colleague of the president of MANA and have forwarded her the link to this discussion. For the advancement of direct-entry midwifery in the US, I am almost positive that she would have NO reason to withhold any information from anyone seeking to know the data collected from the CPM2000 study. The US is one of the only developed countries where direct-entry midwives are considered and quoted as "incompetent, inferior and second class" citizens by physicians. This quote is Maybe I missed the statistic that according to the CDC (and 2003 was the last time reported) the maternal mortality rate was 12.1 deaths per 100,000 births in the US. If midwives in the US are attending less that 1% of these births, what piece are we missing? What is happening in the maternity care system to create one of the highest maternal mortality rates amongst developed countries? Please tell me, I want to know.

What people like you (Dr. Tuteur) and me have to do is start having conversations about the varying differences in our practices. The US COULD aim to be like the UK and New Zealand and Holland where midwives, direct-entry and nurse midwives, attend 70-72% of the births working in collaboration with OB's, Physicians and other maternity professionals. THEY HAVE CONVERSATIONS rather than continuously beat each other down. It takes work, yes and it's possible.

I am an educated direct-entry midwife and a homebirth midwife. As an educated direct-entry midwife, I do agree that advocates should gain insight and report information that comes from places other than Mothering Magazine. The editors do a good job of making sure articles are accurate, however we must look to other databases if we are going to be reporting statistics that can make a difference in our advancement. All the midwives I trained with were highly educated and I think you are missing some major pieces in regards to our education. I attended a required 100 NORMAL births as a student, over three years of didactic and clinical work. It is not UNCOMMON for midwives fresh out of school to have attended between 75-150 normal births. I completed near 2000 hours of clinical and birth work, which includes prenatal, postpartum, preconception, GYN and well-woman care (as these are legal statutes in the states I trained). We were required to write a thesis research paper that was presented for CEU credits to the midwifery community. Some of these papers will potentially become published. My classmates graduated as valedictorians from schools such as Smith College and UC Berkley with majors in neuroscience and biology. Overall, with my preceptors, I had 16 transports from rural settings 10 of which resulted in vaginal births and 6 had necessary cesareans. I was part of a neonatal death, as a student. We do see complications and WE ARE EFFECTIVELY TRAINED to recognize these complications immediately. We were trained by Perinatologists, Obstetricians, Dieticians, Physicians, PhD’s and psychiatrists and this happened at a direct-entry midwifery school. I know some schools have Chinese Medicine Doctors, Naturopaths, DO’s and other medical professionals who teach courses, as well. So to say we are uneducated and voicing this freely is using “half truths, mistruths and outright deceptions.” It is an essential part of my practice to give good informed choice/consent on every test or medical event physicians offer their patients (in and out of labor), and then also add recent evidence from the Cochrane Database, JAMA, ACOG, AAP and MANA. You are right to say some midwives have unsafe practices. However, unsafe practices happen in hospital settings routinely and these statistics go unreported, chart notes become lost or misplaced. It is a tenet of the midwifery model of care for midwives, as a profession, to do our best in peer review to talk to these women/men and look at the ways their practices impact the childbearing population and our profession.

We as the maternity care profession are all at fault for the statistics in the US being so poor. As a collaborative we must accept that responsibility. We are ALL too pigheaded in our autonomy to cooperate, to work together, and to strive to create a unified maternity care system that solely devotes its energy to improving the health and awareness of maternal and neonatal outcomes. We are all too high on our soapboxes to come down, shake each other’s hands and create a system that could be an example to other countries. Midwives, in current society, are highly trained and I want for you Dr. Tuteur to call Geradine Simkins, president of MANA, and discuss your concerns about these midwifery statistics that are not being released unless they "are for the advancement of midwifery." Your voice is very strong and passionate, and you can continue to operate in the archaic mindset that midwives are stupid and untrained and unsafe to birth with or you can really talk to a midwife and find out the truth. Go outside of your state, call midwives in Oregon, Washington, Vermont, Texas, Montana, Colorado and ask them about their work and their education and their statistics.

One day, I believe the US will have a unified system and we'll get over our egos as maternity care providers because in the end the choices childbearing men and women make is not up to the providers and we will not be able to hold them back from where they choose to birth.

My final question to you Dr. Tuteur, if you read this, is to ask you what made you detest the home birth, out-of-hospital, direct-entry, licensed, certified professional midwife the way that you do? What have we done wrong to you and who taught you what you know about us? What have we taken from you?

I hope NC sees the CPM to a legal status. Keep doing your work Carolinians and if you need support from the rest of the CPM community please call upon those of us that can help from around the country that are legal and attending small (3-5% of my community population) but significant numbers of births in our community and have healthy, collaborative relationships with the hospital community.

Rebecca
by greenmidwife , Oregon 7 Aug 2008, 3:17pm Report this comment
Add to the discussion
Post your comment
Add to the discussion
Post your comment
 
return to top